Twist or No Twist?
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Friday, November 3 2006 17:11
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Do you think a scenario should have many plot twists throughout the course of the scenario? -------------------- Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them! Amnesia • Dilecia • The Empire's New Grove • Express Delivery Twilight Valley • Witch Hunt • Where the Rivers Meet Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Friday, November 3 2006 17:25
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Yes, always. -------------------- quote: Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Friday, November 3 2006 17:26
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Um... if your scenario's plot is strong enough, it shouldn't really need twists. That said, the occasional twist (for a small scenario, maybe one) isn't always a bad thing. Is there any context that should be associated with this question? -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Friday, November 3 2006 17:47
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I'm planning on one large plot twist near the end. I sent you a PM with the details, Ephesos. quote:You did that just to improve your post count. -------------------- Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them! Amnesia • Dilecia • The Empire's New Grove • Express Delivery Twilight Valley • Witch Hunt • Where the Rivers Meet Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Friday, November 3 2006 17:58
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quote:No, I did it to make a point about the lameness of your question. Really, using the term "always" should give it away. There are no absolutes in plots. Some are fantastic when linear with no deviations. Some only work if there are twists. So what the hell should I say? No, never? Yes or no, sometimes? Ask a real question, and you may get a real answer. Sheesh. -------------------- quote: Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Friday, November 3 2006 18:22
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Alright. Do you think a plot twist involving the party's abduction is a good idea? Happy now, Salmon? :rolleyes: -------------------- Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them! Amnesia • Dilecia • The Empire's New Grove • Express Delivery Twilight Valley • Witch Hunt • Where the Rivers Meet Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Friday, November 3 2006 18:23
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Do whatever it takes to make the plot and scenario believable, compelling, and fun. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, November 3 2006 18:27
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Even "twists" have to follow logically from the situation the party is in. If the player knows how the scenario is going to end as soon as it starts, that's bad, but you can't just coldcock the party from out of the blue either. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shaper
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written Friday, November 3 2006 18:35
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quote:But isn't that what a good twist is supposed to do? There's going to be a few warning signs of it coming, but other then that, it's supposed to be a nice little surprise for the party. -------------------- Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them! Amnesia • Dilecia • The Empire's New Grove • Express Delivery Twilight Valley • Witch Hunt • Where the Rivers Meet Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Friday, November 3 2006 18:36
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quote:Not sure how you would do that. If the party is abducted, then all information would have to be given through cut scenes. How will they be rescued? I would be more than happy to assist, but the limited information you give makes it difficult. Both Dikiyoba and Thuryl gave good advice as well. -------------------- quote: Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Friday, November 3 2006 18:43
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I sent you a PM regarding the details. Because it's not a plot twist if I tell everybody what it is. -------------------- Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them! Amnesia • Dilecia • The Empire's New Grove • Express Delivery Twilight Valley • Witch Hunt • Where the Rivers Meet Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Friday, November 3 2006 18:50
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quote:The player doesn't need to see it coming in advance, but it's essential that it make sense in hindsight. I can't stress that enough. Having the villain concoct a clever plan offscreen and then implement it at the moment when it will have the greatest possible effect is a good plot twist. Having demons that nobody has mentioned before appear from out of nowhere and start wreaking havoc is a bad plot twist. Basically, if the villain uses resources that the player doesn't know he has, it starts to look as if the designer is pulling things out of his ass. [ Friday, November 03, 2006 18:53: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Friday, November 3 2006 19:03
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Just to mess with people's heads, I'll reply to Nioca in generalities, where he mentioned specifics in the PM. 1) Is this a two part scenario? Like a long one? I have a hard time envisioning the player being all that happy to find out that the thing isn't finished at all, it has hardly begun. 2) The kidnapping makes sense only if the whole thing was engineered to get the reward into the hands of the enemy. 3) If that is the case, the party had better damn well be just killed by the enemy, because otherwise (Dintiradan can fill in the blanks here). Of course, then they are dead, but that never bothered TM, now did it? Alternatively you could have them a. wash up on the beach, b. wake up from a coma in a remote druid's house, or c. wake up in a row boat, cast adrift. Ok? -------------------- quote: Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 6670
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written Saturday, November 4 2006 10:28
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Yep, sure can. Of course, the villain can keep the PCs alive even if it doesn't make sense, because it's possible for the villain to not be completely rational. For instance, the villain could be a sadist or driven by revenge, wanting to inflict pain on the PCs for all the wrenches they threw into his/her/its plans. Or maybe the villain is an ideologue, and is compelled to lecture the PCs on their foolish ways. Perhaps the villain is the established authority in the region, and the PCs are awaiting their 'trial'. Of course, there's always the torture for information, which works well if the PCs are working for somebody. Hey, if the PCs are low-level, they could be no more than hostages. Foreshadowing: it's good, but in a small scenario, there's a fine line between not noticable and blatantly obvious (I'll tell you where it is when I find it). However, naming your .bas file 'foreshadowing' is not a good idea. (EM, anyone?) -------------------- A Freudian slip is when you say one thing when you're really thinking about a mother. - Cliff Clavin (Cheers) Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 7631
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written Saturday, November 4 2006 11:32
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Thurl's point on this is pivotal. No plot element should be independent of all the other plot elements in the story. A plot twist is really nothing more than the revealing of something that had previously been hidden. If your group is just going along, fulfilling the objectives of the scenario, and suddenly they are abducted and forced to attempt escape or take vengence on their captors, that's not really a plot twist. It is the plot itself! If you do something unexpected it doesn't have to be a plot twist, especially near the beginning of the story. I think your idea is a good one, though. Posts: 1 | Registered: Saturday, November 4 2006 08:00 |
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Shake Before Using
Member # 75
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written Saturday, November 4 2006 11:50
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EM's .bas file is emeraldmountain.bas... Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Saturday, November 4 2006 16:16
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quote:No. It's more of a surprise wrench thrown into the party's plan. quote:Actually, it's for different reasons all together. I will tell you that it has nothing to do with the reward. quote:The party gets rescued from the bad guys. Sort of. quote:As far as I can tell. :P By the way, I sent both you and Ephesos another PM. -------------------- Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them! Amnesia • Dilecia • The Empire's New Grove • Express Delivery Twilight Valley • Witch Hunt • Where the Rivers Meet Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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E Equals MC What!!!!
Member # 5491
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written Saturday, November 4 2006 17:29
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quote:I recommend reading this post about half a dozen times, to make sure it all sinks in. -------------------- SupaNik: Aran, you're not big enough to threaten Ash. Dammit, even JV had to think twice. Posts: 1861 | Registered: Friday, February 11 2005 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 6670
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written Monday, November 6 2006 08:11
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By Imban: quote:Erm... yeah. For some reason, I was certain that EM, or at least one of TM's scenarios, had 'foreshadowing' or an abbreviation as the .bas file. -------------------- IF I EVER BECOME AN EVIL OVERLORD: I will have a staff of competent detectives handy. If I learn that someone in a certain village is plotting against me, I will have them find out who rather than wipe out the entire village in a preemptive strike. (T -6) Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Monday, November 6 2006 08:19
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You might be thinking of Roses of Reckoning, which has a .bas file named shortscen. -------------------- Scenarios need reviews! Please rate these scenarios at the CSR after playing them! Amnesia • Dilecia • The Empire's New Grove • Express Delivery Twilight Valley • Witch Hunt • Where the Rivers Meet Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
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written Tuesday, November 7 2006 14:55
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quote:No. A plot twist can greatly enchance the story if done well. However, the more of them you put in, the harder it is to make them good. You can have an exellent plot twist that makes player rething everything that happened before. (Movie "Sixth Sense" is a good example of this.) However, if you try to throw a plot twist at every corner, you plot will become meaningless and lose all connectivity. Aside from that, I'll just repeat everybody else's advice to make sure that the twists make sence in hindsight and there are enough subtle hints to make player realize after the fact that the plot was there all along. -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |