United States Outsourcing Torture?
| Author | Topic: United States Outsourcing Torture? |
|---|---|
|
Infiltrator
Member # 5991
|
written Tuesday, February 14 2006 16:07
Profile
Homepage
The United States has rejected a European human rights report that the CIA (US Central Intelligence Agency) transported terror suspects to secret prisons in Europe where they were tortured. A US State Department Spokesman says the allegations made by the Swiss Senator, Dick Marty, are old recycled media reports and that don't provide any new evidence. Senator Marty told the Council of Europe that the US was "outsourcing" torture by putting more than 100 people through its secret "rendition" program, and he says that European governments knew exactly what was going on. Jennifer Macey reports. JENNIFER MACEY: While the Swiss Senator Dick Marty concedes his report to the Council of Europe does not contain any new evidence, he strongly believes that the United States did in fact outsource the use of torture on terror suspects. The US has dismissed his claim, saying that there is nothing new in the report and that his investigation is based on media stories and allegations by Human Rights Watch. Aldo Borgu is a military expert at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute. He's also sceptical. ALDO BORGU: How do you prove something like this? There's so many conspiracy theories about what's been happening since 9/11 that it's always a difficult thing to prove one way or another. But there is no doubt that the whole question of renditions, the secret prisons, the flights, Guantanamo Bay, isn't good for the US's reputation. The big question is whether or not the intelligence they're getting out of these people is worth the bad publicity that they're getting. JENNIFER MACEY: He says the CIA does outsource contractors for various functions, and may well have used foreign intelligence agencies to interrogate terror suspects. ALDO BORGU: Well, the CIA outsources a number of its services. It'll use consultants for strategic analysis intelligence, it might use them for security. Part of the problem of saying they're outsourcing torture is, you know, it's a very emotive term, and obviously the American Government has policies against torture, so it really depends on your definition of what constitutes torture. JENNIFER MACEY: Late last year, when the allegations were first raised, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, confirmed that a process of extraordinary rendition was taking place. However she denied the US was transporting individuals to countries that practiced torture. Still, for Swiss Senator, Dick Marty, the evidence is strong enough. DICK MARTY (translated): These extraordinary renditions have not been denied. On the contrary, they have been defended. Mrs Rice herself, the American President, all said these are an important instrument. These extraordinary renditions run counter to any basic rights. And what I have seen, is that these extraordinary renditions can in fact be completely inefficient and counter-productive. JENNIFER MACEY: In his report, Mr Marty says it's highly likely that European Governments knew what was going on. A view shared by the United Nations Special Rappateur for Torture, Dr Manfred Novak. MANFRED NOVAK: We have much more evidence already now showing that European governments have violated their obligation - both under the European Convention on Human Rights and the United Nations Convention against torture - not to send anybody alone or in cooperation with the CIA to countries where there is a substantial risk of being subjected to torture. JENNIFER MACEY: Former intelligence officer, Warren Reid, says the US and European countries may have broken international laws governing the use of torture by extraditing prisoners to countries where the practice is legal. WARREN REID: The people sent through to Egypt, for example, go to an interrogation centre there that oddly enough has largely been staffed by Iraqis from way, way back. I'm personally acquainted with the nature of that, it is horrible. So the people doing it will usually be intelligence people in the countries to which the terrorists or whoever else are being rendered. JENNIFER MACEY: So are those firms also implicated? WARREN REID: Of course they are. They know exactly what they're doing. It's impossible for anyone to be flying an aircraft, usually a small aircraft, very often an executive jet, and to have people brought on board who you won't know are being rendered in that way. I mean let's be brutally frank, the people who will be brought on the aircraft to be rendered, say, to an interrogation centre in Cairo won't be dressed in business suits and reading the Financial Times. They'll have hoods over their heads, they'll be sedated, I mean it'll be patently obvious who they are and where they're going to. PETER CAVE: Former Australian intelligence agency operative, Warren Reid. Jennifer Macey was our reporter there. -------------------- George Bush is a Nazi - Eric Cartmen I'm not as think you stoned I am Visit the RIFQ Forums Posts: 462 | Registered: Tuesday, June 21 2005 07:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
|
written Tuesday, February 14 2006 16:31
Profile
Homepage
After the hanging in Iran and now this, I get the feeling that in terms of politics, all the newsworthy topics come to Spiderweb, but about a month later? Still, it is good they are brought up at all. And no, I don't have anything new to add to the discussion. I can even save myself the comment since you all know what I'd say anyway... -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
|
written Tuesday, February 14 2006 16:42
Profile
Homepage
It's topics like this that make me want to leave the country as soon as I can... I just wish I wasn't so attached to St. Louis. I hate the image associated with America at this point, but I love living here. It's the leaders who make such idiots out of themselves that I can't stand... That said, I can't wait for 2008... or a double impeachment. Whichever comes first. Come to think of it, Cheney may be impeached sometime soon (please let it be so!)... just in case you haven't heard of his recent "incident". -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
|
Agent
Member # 27
|
written Tuesday, February 14 2006 16:52
Profile
BBC NEWS Good world news website. The fact that Americans even address tortue as an important instrument to root out terrorism proves that they view 'terrorism' as a physical entity rather than a state of mind. I'd suggest tackling the issue more diplomatically. The liberation of the Middle East could be seen as a diplomatic approach to reduce terrorism, but the fact that these terrorists are martyred as they commit suicide and the Americans are viewed as modern day Bismarcks (though I'd hardly compare Bush to Otto), fuels hatred towards the West. We can also thank Europe's comic and Turkey's "Valley of Wolves," for rekindling these flames. Posts: 1233 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 6292
|
written Tuesday, February 14 2006 17:00
Profile
There really is no country to which to escape to be free of something outrageous or unacceptable. It's just trading lots. I think we often do well if we stay in the ring we are given and do our part to combat the attitudes and practices we find so despicable in our own environment. If those who oppose injustice leave, who's left to possibly overturn these things? But I'm with you on the sentiment, Eph. I feel like jettisoning this country with great regularity. I suspect we must have the most surperficial and disconnected society in all of history to date, and it's a frustrating place to live on numerous levels, at the same time it is wonderful on numerous levels. Nothing sickens or concerns me more than a formerly more genteel nation developing justification for torture though. Sure, the CIA and others have been covertly employing it forever, but it feels like something has shifted in this nation and it has become a potential threat any of us could face one day on the wrong side of the law, working to make our "homeland" "secure." I think the attitudes and polarizations and stresses of the general public contribute to this as much as politics. I think we get the politics that reflect our values ultimately. I think we are also not absolved from blame in some way. I think of how the mood of popular music shifted toward anger and disillusionment over a decade ago with the grunge movement which persisted nearly a whole decade. That to me alone should indicate something going on with us and our present zeitgeist if we are paying attention. -------------------- A4 Items List A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List G4 Insidious Infiltrator NR Items List Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
|
Apprentice
Member # 6607
|
written Tuesday, February 14 2006 17:01
Profile
This subject came up in a conversation with a peer a while ago. They didn't think the US was "evil" enough to torture anyone. Apparently teenagers don't watch the show "24". Posts: 15 | Registered: Saturday, December 24 2005 08:00 |
|
BANNED
Member # 4
|
written Tuesday, February 14 2006 17:05
Profile
Homepage
quote: -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
|
Guardian
Member # 6670
|
written Wednesday, February 15 2006 10:29
Profile
Homepage
If someone is prepared to die in the attempt to cause as much collateral damage as possible, I have a hard time feeling empathy for that person, especially if that person knows of other planned attempts to cause more collateral damage. What bothers me is not the US's practice of torture, but their eagerness to turn to that method before all other avenues of information gathering are exhausted. Now we get to return to the good ol' 'reasonable doubt' debate. Oh joy. -------------------- Excuse me for a moment, my id and super-ego are in the midst of an arguement. Posts: 1509 | Registered: Tuesday, January 10 2006 08:00 |
|
Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
|
written Wednesday, February 15 2006 10:37
Profile
Homepage
quote:It's things like this that scare me. It's not just that they're trying to justify it, it's that their concerns are more about PR than about morality. -------------------- Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram. desperance.net - Don't follow this link Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
|
written Wednesday, February 15 2006 11:02
Profile
Homepage
quote:Quoted for idiocy, for endorsement, or to fix a typo? It's hard to tell sometimes. -------------------- Encyclopaedia Ermariana • Forum Archives • Forum Statistics • RSS [Topic / Forum] My Blog • Polaris • I eat novels for breakfast. Polaris is dead, long live Polaris. Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair. Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
|
BANNED
Member # 4
|
written Wednesday, February 15 2006 16:09
Profile
Homepage
Endorsement. -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |