Yarrr... Linux!

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Author	Topic: Yarrr... Linux!
Sturg Master Member # 4614	written Sunday, January 15 2006 13:13 Profile Homepage #25 I want my money here and not just promised from the government. -------------------- -ben4808 Posts: 3360 \| Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00
Eldibs Lifecrafter Member # 1468	written Sunday, January 15 2006 13:31 Profile Homepage #26 quote: Eldibs, what you described is indirect democracy. Direct democracy is everyone voting on all legislation, which as Stareye says has problems. It would also be a logistical mess and require way too much time and knowledge even from those interested and capable. I've always heard what I described called a Direct Democracy. How about this term: Direct Representaive Election? It would be a logistical nightmare, but if they could make it work, it would be way better. That way Presidents and such have to impress the people, not make friends with the electoral college. quote: —Alorael, who now sees too many debates going on in this thread to keep them all straight. Yeah, this thread has gone fairly far off topic. -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Sunday, January 15 2006 13:34 Profile Homepage #27 quote: I want my money here and not just promised from the government. Like practically all other developed countries, the US uses fiat money. Unless you keep your savings in the form of something like gold bullion, your money only has value in the first place because the government says it does. If the US government were to collapse, your money would be just so much worthless paper. Given that the government is responsible for the fact that your money is worth anything at all, don't you think it's only fair that it has some say in how it's spent? :P [ Sunday, January 15, 2006 13:35: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Eldibs Lifecrafter Member # 1468	written Sunday, January 15 2006 14:02 Profile Homepage #28 quote: Unless you keep your savings in the form of something like gold bullion Not a bad idea, actually. I have a some 1 oz. silver coins and some small gold coins put up, just in case. -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00
Student of Trinity Electric Sheep One Member # 3431	written Sunday, January 15 2006 14:07 Profile #29 Gold bullion isn't valuable from necessity, though. It has some practical utility, but not in proportion to its value, which is just as much a social convention as, say, government. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 \| Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Sunday, January 15 2006 14:24 Profile Homepage #30 Well, yes. But given that it's been valuable throughout pretty much all of recorded history, we can say fairly confidently that gold will continue to be valuable in the future. Only in the event of a worldwide collapse of civilisation would gold lose its value, and if you're worried about preparing for that sort of contingency, you should be stockpiling things for their use value instead of their exchange value. For the record, I am not a survivalist. But if you want to be one, you may as well be a good one. [ Sunday, January 15, 2006 14:27: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Semodius Warrior Member # 6689	written Sunday, January 15 2006 15:08 Profile #31 Bloody politics. I shouldn't have mentioned WHY I use Linux. grumbles a few curses and continues reaping the ligaments of capitalists worldwide -------------------- --Dachnaz Posts: 50 \| Registered: Saturday, January 14 2006 08:00
Dikiyoba Councilor Member # 6600	written Sunday, January 15 2006 15:36 Profile Homepage #32 Let's start a debate about whether pepperoni or Canadian bacon is better on pizza. Dikiyoba votes for mushrooms for supreme rulers of the universe. Posts: 4346 \| Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Eldibs Lifecrafter Member # 1468	written Sunday, January 15 2006 15:39 Profile Homepage #33 Mushrooms... ewww... Personally, I prefer pepperoni, but Canadian Bacon is good too. [ Sunday, January 15, 2006 15:40: Message edited by: Eldibs ] -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00
Or else o'erleap. Law Bringer Member # 335	written Sunday, January 15 2006 15:50 Profile Homepage #34 Direct representative democracy is an oxymoron. Direct democracy requires the people to hold power. Indirect democracy, which includes representative democracy, is a system in which the people invest sovereignty in a body of elected representatives. Neither pure system is used in America or anywhere else that I know of. On a federal level, though, with a few exceptions, we give power to elected officials, who then appoint some non-elected officials and create policy. The only real force preventing the president and Congress from jilting the country and following some bizarre agenda of their own is a desire to be reelected. —Alorael, who does not believe in inflicting meat on pizza. Posts: 14579 \| Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Eldibs Lifecrafter Member # 1468	written Sunday, January 15 2006 16:00 Profile Homepage #35 quote: —Alorael, who does not believe in inflicting meat on pizza. Inflicting meat on pizza? That's like inflicting pleasure on joy. quote: Direct representative democracy is an oxymoron. Direct democracy requires the people to hold power. Indirect democracy, which includes representative democracy, is a system in which the people invest sovereignty in a body of elected representatives. Absolutely true. Which is why I used the term Direct Representative Election. Basically, an Indirect Democracy system where you directly elect the officials. quote: The only real force preventing the president and Congress from jilting the country and following some bizarre agenda of their own is a desire to be reelected. Well, that and a desire to keep from getting sniped. I happen to know several people that wouldn't mind sniping a dictator. -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00
SNM Shock Trooper Member # 4239	written Sunday, January 15 2006 17:39 Profile #36 quote: Originally written by Eldibs: If those without starve to death, then so will those have have plenty. The wealthy need the poor to work for them to keep food on their tables. If the poor all starve, nobody is there to run the factories, clean the toilets, flip the burgers, etc. Also, nobody is there to buy the burgers, use the toilets, or whatever. In short, businesses would fail, the rich would become poor, and then they would starve, having been catered to all their lives. There are a crapload of withouts for every with. Haven't you noticed that people still die on the streets in this country? quote: Sometimes, you have to pick what will do the most good, and go with it. Thus the existence of socialism. quote: So what you're saying is we should go empty our bank accounts, and sell anything we don't absolutely need to live, and then hand out money to random homeless people on the street? According to the founder of the most common religion in the States, yes. According to my current interpretation, no. But there's a difference between caring for oneself and living lives of disgusting luxury. Most anybody who's at least upper-middle class falls into the latter category (in my view). quote: I don't know if it's because I'm an American, or because I'm human, but if my family is hungry, or in need of anything, they come first. If my father, brothers, or whatever are going hungry, I don't really care about anyone else. Sure, it's not other people's fault that they're going hungry, but I've got other things to worry about. Namely, the survival of my family tree first and foremost. Is family starvation a common occurrence with you? Didn't think so. Now get out there and do some good in the world. quote: Trust me, if I ever get rich and have kids, they're going to earn their inheritance. None of this "free ride because Daddy's rich" crap. How do they earn it? By being good little boys and girls whenever you're watching? You can't earn a fortune in any fair sense of the word. What you can do is get lucky in location and birth. -------------------- There are two kinds of game players...those who are newbies, and those who were. Posts: 322 \| Registered: Monday, April 12 2004 07:00
Goldenking Agent Member # 4574	written Sunday, January 15 2006 18:13 Profile #37 Ummm, I'm not one for politics, but wouldn't the world be... better, if it took up it's old habits of bartering? Eh I just wanted to put in my comment. Oh and my view on communism, umm bad. Bad communism, no cookie for you! Oh and yes I have cookies :D You just might get one if your good. -------------------- Constitutional monarchies are the in monarchies. Posts: 1186 \| Registered: Friday, June 18 2004 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Sunday, January 15 2006 18:49 Profile Homepage #38 quote: Originally written by Goldenking: Ummm, I'm not one for politics, but wouldn't the world be... better, if it took up it's old habits of bartering? Probably not. How's an automobile factory supposed to pay its employees? In cars? How the heck are you going to barter a couple of cars per year for all the goods and services you need that year? -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Goldenking Agent Member # 4574	written Sunday, January 15 2006 18:56 Profile #39 Eh, good point. You'd think that they would be able to pay them in stuff they traded for the cars. Yeah, bartering is still a possibility, but I'm not particularly up for it. After all, what would we do with all the pretty paper? Oh and Thuryl for opposing me... NO COOKIE FOR YOU!!! -------------------- Constitutional monarchies are the in monarchies. Posts: 1186 \| Registered: Friday, June 18 2004 07:00
Dikiyoba Councilor Member # 6600	written Sunday, January 15 2006 19:01 Profile Homepage #40 Technically speaking, money is a form of bartering. Person 1: "I will give you this soda if you give me a green piece of paper with the number one on it." Person 2: "Okay. Here you go." Person 1: "Now I will use this green piece of paper with the number one on it with 19 other green pieces of paper with the number one on it to get the DVD of my favorite movie with a special disk of bonus features." Dikiyoba misses the bartering skills Dikiyoba got from Tor in A2. Posts: 4346 \| Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00
Or else o'erleap. Law Bringer Member # 335	written Sunday, January 15 2006 19:05 Profile Homepage #41 Money is an intermediary step in the bartering process because there are problems with trying to exchange services, extremely bulky items, perishables, and so on. —Alorael, who will give you a foo in exchange for an item of no particular use except agreed-upon value equal to one foo. He will then trade two of these units for a bar, which has a value of two foos. Posts: 14579 \| Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Goldenking Agent Member # 4574	written Sunday, January 15 2006 19:05 Profile #42 Well if you look at it that way. Oh and for making me cross back on myself only half a cookie for you! grudgingly forks up half a cookie Edit: I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE POST AT THE SAME TIME AS ME!!!!! gives Alorael a cookie [ Sunday, January 15, 2006 19:07: Message edited by: Goldenking ] -------------------- Constitutional monarchies are the in monarchies. Posts: 1186 \| Registered: Friday, June 18 2004 07:00
Eldibs Lifecrafter Member # 1468	written Sunday, January 15 2006 19:32 Profile Homepage #43 quote: There are a crapload of withouts for every with. Haven't you noticed that people still die on the streets in this country? Yes, I have noticed that. My statement was based upon a hypothetical situation in which most (if not all) withouts died for some reason, and the withs survived. quote: Is family starvation a common occurrence with you? Didn't think so. Now get out there and do some good in the world. It's not too common, but we have gone without at some points. Ever have to eat only vegetables that you grew for an entire month? Ever look in your cupboard to only see a single can of peas? Didn't think so. The entire income of my immediate family is just enough to live off of (approximately $10,000 a year). Besides, are you going out and doing good in the world, or are you just sitting around complaining and saying everyone else should? quote: How do they earn it? By being good little boys and girls whenever you're watching? No, by working (well, of course they'll have to behave, but not only when I'm looking). If they want to get that new toy or videogame, they'll have to do chores to earn it. When they turn 16 and want a new car, they'll get a job and pay for it. That way, they'll know the value of money, and they won't get a free ride. Then, when I die, they will evenly split whatever is left of my fortune with all the other members of my family. quote: You can't earn a fortune in any fair sense of the word. What you can do is get lucky in location and birth. So If I happen to work hard, spending my own free time inventing something that revolutionizes the world, and I get rich off of it (this is assuming I'm not already wealthy), then I didn't earn it? How is that right? -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00
Goldenking Agent Member # 4574	written Sunday, January 15 2006 19:42 Profile #44 Eldibs is right. Although who your parents are and where you're born is a determining factor, they're not the only ones. Oh sure I could get an insane ammount of money from my third cousin twice removed etc, etc that I've never heard of could make me rich, but unless I work to keep it, eventually it will evaporate. Now the RIGHT way to earn it is to write a great book series, kill a rich guy and take his money (oops thats not a right way to earn it, oh well), Find a long lost civilaization that can write books that take you to other worlds and sell some of these books, etc. Well that is my new input. Oh and because I agree with you. gives Eldibs a cookie :D -------------------- Constitutional monarchies are the in monarchies. Posts: 1186 \| Registered: Friday, June 18 2004 07:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Sunday, January 15 2006 20:11 Profile Homepage #45 quote: No, by working (well, of course they'll have to behave, but not only when I'm looking). If they want to get that new toy or videogame, they'll have to do chores to earn it. When they turn 16 and want a new car, they'll get a job and pay for it. That way, they'll know the value of money, and they won't get a free ride. Then, when I die, they will evenly split whatever is left of my fortune with all the other members of my family. Sounds like a good way to encourage patricide... quote: So If I happen to work hard, spending my own free time inventing something that revolutionizes the world, and I get rich off of it (this is assuming I'm not already wealthy), then I didn't earn it? How is that right? It's entirely possible under our current economic system for a wealthy person to earn over a thousand times more in a lifetime than someone on an average income (and that's just in developed countries; in poorer countries, income disparities can be even greater). Do you really think anyone works one thousand times harder than average? Also, I'd be very surprised if you could find even one example of an actual inventor who worked primarily for material gain. The desire to make something that revolutionises the world is almost invariably sufficient motivation in itself. [ Sunday, January 15, 2006 20:20: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Eldibs Lifecrafter Member # 1468	written Sunday, January 15 2006 20:19 Profile Homepage #46 quote: Sounds like a good way to encourage patricide... Not likely. I may not be the strongest person in the world, but I can certainly defend myself. Besides, I like to cook my own meals, and make my own drinks, so should they decide to go the poison route, it'll be a bit harder for them. Also, I'll raise them to be wiser than that. quote: Do you really think anyone works one thousand times harder than average? No, but do you really think it's fair to take away a person's wealth when they did work harder to get it? -------------------- "We can learn a lot from crayons. Some are short, some are dull, some are sharp, some are tall. Some have funny names and they are all different colors, but they all learn to live in the same box." "Happy is the man that has wisdom and gets discernment. For having wisdom as gain is better than having silver as gain and having wisdom as produce is better than gold itself" Proverbs 3:14-3:15 The horrible part about life is, you'll never get out of it alive. Currently boycotting: AngelFire, GameFAQ's, Macintosh PC's Posts: 818 \| Registered: Tuesday, July 9 2002 07:00
Kelandon Off With Their Heads Member # 4045	written Sunday, January 15 2006 20:20 Profile Homepage #47 I think the most obvious example disproving the working hard = contribution to society = monetary reward myth is that of teachers. Most teachers work about as hard as anybody, and they individually touch the lives of hundreds or even thousands of young people, but they get paid next to nothing compared to some other professions. I'm not sure how a teacher is many times less valuable or hard-working than a corporate lawyer. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 \| Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Thuryl ...b10010b... Member # 869	written Sunday, January 15 2006 20:22 Profile Homepage #48 Academic research is another field with high contributions to society for really, really low financial reward. As a medical researcher, unless I start my own biotech company or win a Nobel Prize or something, I'm likely to earn even less than a teacher for similar hours of work. (I have several family members who are teachers, so I know how much they make.) Frankly, this doesn't bother me. I'm not in it for the money anyway. quote: No, but do you really think it's fair to take away a person's wealth when they did work harder to get it? In what sense is it "your" wealth anyway? Money only has value because it can be exchanged for goods and services within a society. In other words, money exists only as a part of the society in which it's being spent, and as such can't really belong to any one individual except to the extent that that society decides it does. To put it another way, the government creates the conditions of political and social stability which allow you to earn money and maintain an expectation that your money will still be worth something to others. In exchange, it gets a degree of control over how that money is spent. If you don't like that arrangement, there are still plenty of uninhabited islands in the world. [ Sunday, January 15, 2006 20:28: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 \| Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Goldenking Agent Member # 4574	written Sunday, January 15 2006 20:41 Profile #49 Wow, this thread isn't talking about Communism or Linux at all anymore. This is quite a fast transiction. I wonder, should I take away cookies for straying off topic? Hmm, I like that. Steal from the people who have cookies, and give to the me. :D -------------------- Constitutional monarchies are the in monarchies. Posts: 1186 \| Registered: Friday, June 18 2004 07:00