What books...

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AuthorTopic: What books...
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #25
quote:
Originally written by Shuan Wuan:

word to the wise do not read or try reading the book necronimicron
You fail at spelling. Cthulhu will now devour you. Ia, ia, etc.

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My BlogPolarisI eat novels for breakfast.
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Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5991
Profile Homepage #26
hey im 14 and prone to spelling mistakes dont mock me

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Posts: 462 | Registered: Tuesday, June 21 2005 07:00
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #27
Yes, I often think people come down too hard on spelling mistakes. As long as you don't have to struggle to understand the person, why torment them?

Yes, they should try to improve their spelling, and they're probably already aware of this.

Suffice to say, I'm sorry, but Cthulhu must get his din-dins. Otherwise he gets cranky. :P
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #28
Spelling normal words wrong is quite okay; I just make jokes when people spell words like Vahnatai "Vahiantahaytitai" or something to that effect.

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Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #29
But classing "Necronomicon" as a normal word is making a damaging lifestyle confession.

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Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #30
I didn't say I classed "Necronomicon" as a normal word, I was just giving another example like "Vahnatai". :P

(No, seriously, I've grown out of my Lovecraft mania by now.)

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My BlogPolarisI eat novels for breakfast.
Polaris is dead, long live Polaris.
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Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #31
Vahnatai is not a proper noun. It's "vahnatai" unless it's at the beginning of a sentence or you're German.

—Alorael, who has been led to believe that Necronomicon can be spelled any number of ways. It's only when intersecting Earth's slice of three-space that it happens to appear to be two dimensional letters with a traceable etymology.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #32
quote:
Originally written by Cosmic Limit:

—Alorael, who has been led to believe that Necronomicon can be spelled any number of ways. It's only when intersecting Earth's slice of three-space that it happens to appear to be two dimensional letters with a traceable etymology.
Are you mocking the Great Old Ones, foolish mortal? :P

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My BlogPolarisI eat novels for breakfast.
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #33
la! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn! Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah-nagl fhtaga - Ia-R'lyehl Cihuiha flgagnl id Ia!

—Alorael, who dislocated his jaw saying that.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Lifecrafter
Member # 4682
Profile #34
I just read Gulliver's Travels by Jonathan Swift. It was amazing.....

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Posts: 834 | Registered: Thursday, July 8 2004 07:00
Infiltrator
Member # 5567
Profile Homepage #35
The Terry Pratchett Discworld books changed me a lot for a few weeks after I read the first ones by making me freak up every time the local library didn't have a new one I hadn't read yet. Apart from that, there aren't really any books that changed me apart from The Time Machine by H. G. Welles, which is one of the best books I've ever read. Recommended to everyone who like good storys.

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Posts: 576 | Registered: Wednesday, March 2 2005 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #36
Looking for Terry Pratchett books in a library is a strange exercise. You need an advanced understanding of L-space mechanics to know exactly what book you're getting, where it is, how to get it, and when it will be there.

[Edit: "Should be italic."]

—Alorael, who just read and enjoyed Bring the Jubilee. It may not be exactly what Ward Moore intended, but he views it as a cautionary tale: accidentally killing people can make it rather difficult to get a decent watch.

[ Sunday, November 20, 2005 14:12: Message edited by: The Society of Association ]
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 4153
Profile Homepage #37
quote:
Originally written by The Society of Association:

Looking for Terry Pratchett books in a library is a strange exercise. You need an advanced understanding of L-space mechanics to know exactly what book you're getting, where it is, how to get it, and when it will be there.

Not to mention the issue of whether or not it will have been published yet at the time you go looking for it. Nothing worse than going to find your favorite Pratchett book and find out that it doesn't exist yet.

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Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #38
Yes, that's why I mentioned the when. You know, L-space books are a lot like Richard White. They can both not exist today but have existed today tomorrow while not actually existing tomorrow. It's troublesome.

—Alorael, who has been led to believe that yesterday Richard White not only didn't exist but never existed and never would come into existence. It was a bad day.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #39
I bought Bring the Jubilee because I heard it praised as the first great alternate history by time travel book, and was rather disappointed. In a curiously appropriate, backwards-causality way, it felt derivative. It didn't seem to me to have all that much going for it beyond the basic idea, and since the basic idea was quite familiar to me, I was unimpressed. The fact (if such it is) that this book originated the idea was of merely historical relevance; it didn't actually help me appreciate the book itself.

By far the best book I know of this kind, which as it happens is also a US civil war novel, is Harry Turtledove's The Guns of the South. It's quite a serious exercise in historical fiction, with practically all the characters based on real people, even the ones who played no great role in actual history.

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Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #40
quote:
Originally written by Student of Trinity:

I bought Bring the Jubilee because I heard it praised as the first great alternate history by time travel book, and was rather disappointed. In a curiously appropriate, backwards-causality way, it felt derivative. It didn't seem to me to have all that much going for it beyond the basic idea, and since the basic idea was quite familiar to me, I was unimpressed. The fact (if such it is) that this book originated the idea was of merely historical relevance; it didn't actually help me appreciate the book itself.
I vaguely recall two literary academics once compiling a list of "50 books that never needed to be written", including Beowulf, Lord of the Rings and Tom Jones. The writers reviewed all the books in the list and argued that each of them was bland, cliched and contributed nothing new to the literary canon.

The whole list was, of course, a joke, designed to illustrate the fact that the literary works on it had all permeated so deeply throughout our culture that the works themselves no longer seemed to have any significantly original content from the viewpoint of an average modern person.

[ Monday, November 21, 2005 05:10: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
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Although technically, Beowulf really didn't have to be written.

Since, you know, it wasn't.

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Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 2984
Profile Homepage #42
quote:
Originally written by Thuryl:

quote:
Originally written by Student of Trinity:

I bought Bring the Jubilee because I heard it praised as the first great alternate history by time travel book, and was rather disappointed. In a curiously appropriate, backwards-causality way, it felt derivative. It didn't seem to me to have all that much going for it beyond the basic idea, and since the basic idea was quite familiar to me, I was unimpressed. The fact (if such it is) that this book originated the idea was of merely historical relevance; it didn't actually help me appreciate the book itself.
I vaguely recall two literary academics once compiling a list of "50 books that never needed to be written", including Beowulf, Lord of the Rings and Tom Jones. The writers reviewed all the books in the list and argued that each of them was bland, cliched and contributed nothing new to the literary canon.

The whole list was, of course, a joke, designed to illustrate the fact that the literary works on it had all permeated so deeply throughout our culture that the works themselves no longer seemed to have any significantly original content from the viewpoint of an average modern person.

It's similar to arguing "Who the hell thinks fire is an important invention? Everyone has fire!" :P

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Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #43
Yes, it is. On the other hand, though, this observation still doesn't make it any easier to get through Tom Jones.

I don't think it's the rule that first books (i.e. first books of a certain kind) have to be mediocre as examples of the genre they launch. I just think that being the first instance of something big enough to sustain many successors obviously gives a book a huge advantage in becoming famous, so it can often manage to qualify as a great book without having to be such a good book. So on average you're bound to get a lot of classic first books that are kind of mediocre in hindsight. But there can certainly be exceptions.

To my mind, for instance, The Lord of the Rings stands up pretty well against its legion of successors. There are numerous passages that make me cringe now, but it has this severe austerity that will probably let it last a very long time.

At the other extreme is the last book in a genre. Possibly this is very bad, if a genre just decays away. But often it is very good, and it kills the genre by reducing it, in subsequent memory, to just itself. It convincingly includes all the active ingredients that made the genre work, and executes itself so well that no writers good enough to have a chance at competing with it will dare to try. I count Treasure Island as the classic example, because it obliterated what I believe was once a fluourishing genre of pirate stories, and it is still one of the best crafted stories ever written. I rather expect Lois McMaster Bujold will turn out to have written the last space opera. Has someone written the last western? The last hard-boiled detective story? The last whodunit?

Then there are the last books which do not exist even though they should. Conan Doyle arguably never succeeded in writing the single Sherlock Holmes story that epitomizes the ideal of Holmes. One thinks of the Holmes canon as this unique masterpiece, but then story after story has shocking flaws. Hmmm.

[ Monday, November 21, 2005 13:01: Message edited by: Student of Trinity ]

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Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
Law Bringer
Member # 335
Profile Homepage #44
quote:
Originally written by Jibun wo Ecchi Suru:

Although technically, Beowulf really didn't have to be written.

Since, you know, it wasn't.

But, y'see, it was. It's a literary masterpiece (or whatever) as an epic poem, but it's also a physical document of literary and historical importance in a way that, say, the Kalevala and the Illiad aren't.

—Alorael, who enjoyed Moore's style of writing. Guns of the South is a great book, probably better even if it's less original, but it reads quite differently. Bujold won't kill the space opera because sci-fi has a depressing tolerance for garbage (yesk, 90% of everything is crap, but most of the time that 90% is rejected). Still, if the space opera has to die, Bujold would be a fine note to end on.
Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #45
Only Barrington J. Bayley and Iain M. Banks are writing good space opera anymore. The rest of it is trash. I know, because I've read the first five pages of dozens of modern space operas.

And speaking of the originator of an idea or genre being awful in retrospect after everyone else has elaborated on it in book after book — A.E. van Vogt is one of those authors. He originated so much of modern SF, but modern readers seem to find his prose style and stories rather blech. But there is one thing about his stories that has never been equaled by his successors: all his fiction has a dream-like intensity. He can drop non-sequiturs left and right, and yet it all seems perfectly natural. A lot like Lovecraft in that respect.

[ Monday, November 21, 2005 11:36: Message edited by: Icshi ]
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00
Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
Profile #46
Space opera is currently mutating. An important feature of classic space opera is that the sci-fi premises of what was possible with all that future technology were basically fixed, didn't surprise the reader, and didn't really make all that much difference apart from effectively shrinking the unimaginable empty distances of space down to about the scale of the Balkans. As I remarked somewhere around here not long ago, there is a new breed of space opera emerging which is perfectly space-operish except in this one respect. Technology becomes spooky, and extremely wacky things happen such that the reader's basic conception of what reality is like is supposed to get blitzed several times through the course of the series.

I guess I might agree about van Vogt. I read several of his books when I was 11, and liked them very much then, but somehow I haven't been very motivated to re-read them since. Again, derivative-in-hindsight.

[ Monday, November 21, 2005 12:58: Message edited by: Student of Trinity ]

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Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00
...b10010b...
Member # 869
Profile Homepage #47
quote:
Originally written by Icshi:

Only Barrington J. Bayley and Iain M. Banks are writing good space opera anymore. The rest of it is trash. I know, because I've read the first five pages of dozens of modern space operas.
I'm unfortunately beginning to develop the impression that Banks is, in several important respects, writing the same book over again. Probably this is because of the nature of the Culture; stories about it can only be told from a position slightly outside it, because a whole book written about a utopia tends to make a pretty boring read. Still, it's slightly frustrating for every second protagonist he writes to be an antisocial reluctant hero with an ambivalent attitude toward the Culture.

[ Monday, November 21, 2005 16:19: Message edited by: Thuryl ]

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Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00
Mongolian Barbeque
Member # 1528
Profile #48
Student of Trinity: I've read some of these "mutant" space operas that you mention, and find them very tiresome. Reading one every few years seems to be my tolerance limit for them. Even though they through reality out the window quite often, I find their "unreality" very predictable.

Thuryl: I think Banks' best books are his stand-alones, such as Against a Dark Background, which is his finest novel to date by far — though, now that I think of it, it's not as space-operay as his Culture books. Oh, and Feersum Endjinn was a stand-alone but neither space opera nor good. So maybe I should retract my praise of Banks as a good space opera writer...

Bayley's very good, though. He hasn't written much lately — his most recent book being the superb Warhammer 40,000 novel Eye of Terror. But he's still certainly the best in that sub-genre since around 1970 or so.
Posts: 907 | Registered: Monday, July 15 2002 07:00

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