Assembling code
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Infiltrator
Member # 5806
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written Wednesday, June 15 2005 18:16
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I wish to learn assembling code but have trouble finding any courses, books and compillers. Does anybody know some good site, quickcourse or anything with above mentioned content. -------------------- So, as the great Groxy, I have come back to be served by goblins. In the "main hall" of the goblin cave was a large totem which resembled very much of... me. Posts: 437 | Registered: Friday, May 13 2005 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 3040
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written Wednesday, June 15 2005 18:42
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www.google.com Mac or PC? If PC, there's not much I can help you with. I also doubt anyone else on these forums will be able to help you either. That's kinda obscure stuff you're asking about. Why do you need to compile assembly? Generally compilers will be able to come up with faster and more efficient stuff than any programmer. -------------------- 5.0.1.0.0.0.0.1.0... Posts: 508 | Registered: Thursday, May 29 2003 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 32
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written Wednesday, June 15 2005 18:46
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There are many PC users on Spidweb, don't think you Mac people on the place. Doing a google search for PCSPIM should help if you're using a PC. If you can't find it I'll have to look up my link for it and send it to you. [ Wednesday, June 15, 2005 18:46: Message edited by: Lt. Sullust ] -------------------- Lt. Sullust Cogito Ergo Sum Polaris Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5806
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written Wednesday, June 15 2005 18:50
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Because assembling code is useful when you want to optimized the code to suit certain computers and therefore accelerate games slightly under certain circumstances. What I seek mostly for now is to become a programming guru... which is really, really difficult, but hey, why not try? Although creating a 3D-game that will only work good on one computer would not make me a programming guru... I use PC for everything but playing some games (mostly SNES or the Blades of Exile) and write my novels and short stories (The RTF turn out smaller if saved on MacOS.). -------------------- So, as the great Groxy, I have come back to be served by goblins. In the "main hall" of the goblin cave was a large totem which resembled very much of... me. Posts: 437 | Registered: Friday, May 13 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Thursday, June 16 2005 01:54
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quote:How do you define "guru"? Haven't seen many people who set themselves so ambitious goals. Good luck. ;) Me, I can't even get my head around PHP right now. :( -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "Really, Spiderweb is just a big, steaming pool of estrogen." --- Robin Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Thursday, June 16 2005 03:38
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He's not really interested in the whole expertise side of things; he just wants to be able to wear a loincloth without looking insane. -------------------- My BoE Page Bandwagons are fun! Roots Hunted! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Thursday, June 16 2005 03:45
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quote:I tried to avoid being that harsh. :P Seriously though, there are few programmers who use or need Assembler now. Of course, it's a cool thing to list in one's CV or an application, but from what I hear it has marginally more practical value now than being able to operate an ENIAC. Of course, I stand corrected if any programmer knows better. (Edit: By the way, in the meantime I have finished the PHP script I was trying to make. :) ) [ Thursday, June 16, 2005 03:49: Message edited by: 2984 ] -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "Really, Spiderweb is just a big, steaming pool of estrogen." --- Robin Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 5806
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written Thursday, June 16 2005 03:49
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God, no! I want the knowledge! I want the ability to create software without a flaw! That is why I want to be a programming guru. "Programming guru" refeers to programmers who have mastered most popular and common programming languages and scripht. And aiming for such is unrealistic, but who cares? A goal is a goal. I will stick to it until I get bored. -------------------- So, as the great Groxy, I have come back to be served by goblins. In the "main hall" of the goblin cave was a large totem which resembled very much of... me. Posts: 437 | Registered: Friday, May 13 2005 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 2984
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written Thursday, June 16 2005 03:51
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Then, as said, I'd start with more common languages first. For most purposes, C or Java will serve you well, and they are far less trouble than Assembler. General question to the community: Who here is a professional/free-lance programmer and can write Assembler? Are there any? [ Thursday, June 16, 2005 03:53: Message edited by: 2984 ] -------------------- The Encyclopaedia Ermariana <-- Now a Wiki! "Polaris leers down from the black vault, winking hideously like an insane watching eye which strives to convey some strange message, yet recalls nothing save that it once had a message to convey." --- HP Lovecraft. "Really, Spiderweb is just a big, steaming pool of estrogen." --- Robin Posts: 8752 | Registered: Wednesday, May 14 2003 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 32
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written Thursday, June 16 2005 07:46
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Yes there are, and they are extremely valuable. Without them you wouldn't have the compilers which understand what the C++ or Java means. -------------------- Lt. Sullust Cogito Ergo Sum Polaris Posts: 2462 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 3351
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written Thursday, June 16 2005 08:03
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quote:Depends what kind of programming you do. Imbedded programming is still often done in assembler. For example vending machines are very often programmed in assembler here. quote:I disagree but I guess it is just personnal experience. For you question, I can write x86, 68k and ppc assembler. -------------------- /Seawinds are calling Posts: 187 | Registered: Thursday, August 14 2003 07:00 |
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Nuke and Pave
Member # 24
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written Thursday, June 16 2005 08:10
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quote:I am a professional programmer, although I am not working as a programmer at the moment. And I am pretty sure that you will not learn anything useful by trying to learn assembly language. Modern compilers already do a lot more optimizations than most programmers could think of. So if you attempt to write a complicated program by hand, chances are you'll end up with more bugs and worse performance than if you took advantage of a compiler. Sullust, there are only a few hundred people in the entire world who are working on internal design of databases. I am guessing similar numbers for compiler design. All of them have Phds. And if you want to get into the field now, you better be in a Phd programm, working under a famous professor with direct connections to the industry. [ Thursday, June 16, 2005 08:11: Message edited by: Zeviz ] -------------------- Be careful with a word, as you would with a sword, For it too has the power to kill. However well placed word, unlike a well placed sword, Can also have the power to heal. Posts: 2649 | Registered: Wednesday, October 3 2001 07:00 |
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Shock Trooper
Member # 4557
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written Thursday, June 16 2005 11:19
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quote:Not sure I can call myself a professional or free-lance programmer, but I can write x86 assembly if I had reference at hand (like NASM's). quote:I don't know about database design, but I'd say there are quite a few more people working on compiler design, mainly due to GCC. Either way I don't know why anyone would want to learn assembly on purpose. I learned it (or what I know of it) by looking into compiler design, although I'm not sure it helped me any. Good to know, though. On a side note, I thought most hardware wasn't written directly in assembly, rather in HDLs such as Verilog. Is this wrong? Posts: 264 | Registered: Wednesday, June 16 2004 07:00 |
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Master
Member # 4614
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written Thursday, June 16 2005 13:52
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You can look on this thread, where I'm hopefully getting Spring started with C++. You really need to learn a language before you go into platform optimizations or anything. -------------------- -ben4808 For those who love to spam: CSM Forums RIFQ Posts: 3360 | Registered: Friday, June 25 2004 07:00 |
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Apprentice
Member # 3418
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written Thursday, June 16 2005 14:36
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Well as far as terminology goes it is assembly you are writing and you use an assembler to generate executable code not a compiler. As people have already noted you are more likely to slow things down by writing things in assembly as most modern compilers are very good at doing general case optimization tricks. The only time you will get any speed benefit is if you really know how the chip you are programming for works and you know your compiler well enough to no it won't optimize properly. Also another problem with writing assembly is that it isn't portable. Every chip has its own set of commands and registers and while they may be similiar assembly for one chip won't work on another. Which means you kill much hope of having a cross platform app unless you write a variation of the assembly for each chip you want your program to run on. However as far as it not being useful this is very untrue. Most handheld console systems still use it extensivly as space and cpu cycle usage are at a premium(compilers tend to be good at optimizing for speed but are lousy when it comes to doing it in a small amount of space). If you plan on building your own computer peripherials you need to know ASM to either write the drivers for it or interact with it directly. The cases in which you need to use assembly are few and it is an awful awful language to work with so unless you need to know it for a job you can probably safely stay away from it and save your sanity. Posts: 16 | Registered: Tuesday, September 2 2003 07:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 3351
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written Friday, June 17 2005 03:31
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quote:The offset film was generated by a specialised program, ABEL was used for the PLDs and the main card often had a processor which needed to be programmed, and that was done in assembler. quote:It's not that awful, either RISC or CISC, but it isn't very useful. [ Friday, June 17, 2005 03:48: Message edited by: So Incredibly Sad ] -------------------- /Seawinds are calling Posts: 187 | Registered: Thursday, August 14 2003 07:00 |