This thread is a spoiler.
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Thursday, December 15 2005 19:06
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[Edit: I changed the thread's title. The original name was "Beat Rentar."] Twice. But why did she have a pylon standing behind her, anyway? [ Thursday, December 15, 2005 19:30: Message edited by: Chrism ] -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Thursday, December 15 2005 20:14
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That pylon is there so that you can teleport out, thereby finishing the game. It's like the other traveling pylons. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Thursday, December 15 2005 20:34
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Dues ex Machina. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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BANNED
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written Thursday, December 15 2005 20:35
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what arew you talking about explain -------------------- join me! we shall harness the power of geckos, bunnys, and fluffy pink stuffed animals and rule the world!!! Posts: 193 | Registered: Wednesday, December 14 2005 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Thursday, December 15 2005 21:57
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Spoilers, spoilers, spoilers. This post is pure and unmitigated spoiler in a thread of spoilers. But you asked for it. The mysterious pylons in all towns and forts are revealed as a teleportation device once you reach Fort Avernum. They're convenient for quick travel. There's another teleportation pylon accessible after the last battle of the game, and it takes you to the ending. —Alorael, who believes a quick and unhelpful explanation is given in the game as well. Deus ex machina covers it, more or less. Actually, since the pylon is kind of a machine, and since Jeff can be considered a god of sorts over the Avernum world, would it be machina ex deus? Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Friday, December 16 2005 00:17
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Machina ex deo, I believe. But actually it might make good sense for Rentar-Ihrno to have made her own pylon, to transport her agents from her fortress out into Avernum. The question remains as to why she doesn't just use this transportation capability to escape again herself. Presumably magic capable of creating these pylons would have no trouble over the trivial fact that a crystal soul can't walk over and touch one. Perhaps it requires more or different magical infrastructure to transport a crystal soul than an ordinary mortal, however, and Rentar-Ihrno had built a mortal-insertion portal but hadn't yet finished her own escape route. This would imply that she put a higher priority on continuing her offensive, through insertion of mortal agents, than on ensuring her own last ditch survival. This strikes me as entirely plausible for her: she is certainly obsessed with revenge, and very possibly too exhausted to be all that keen on living to fight another day if she is defeated yet again. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Friday, December 16 2005 03:31
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She didn't have any trouble escaping the first time you fight her/it. Rentar is strong enough on her own to teleport away, she is after all, the most powerful Vahnatai wizard. The pylon is just there so Jeff can end the game...pity too, I would have preferred a more A1/A2 style of "ending". -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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BANNED
Member # 4
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written Friday, December 16 2005 10:59
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After killing rentar and getting the game-over, my first thought was, "When do I get to kill Dorikas?" And hell, there's at least one gaping hole with that pylon- if pylons can be accessed by unattuned people, doesn't that essentially mean that Rentar's inner sanctum could have been accessed by ANYONE? Why wasn't I teleported there in the first place? -------------------- * Posts: 6936 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, December 16 2005 11:10
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TM, you missed something integral in Erika's Ruins south of the final showdown areas. -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
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written Friday, December 16 2005 11:10
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quote:In A5, of course! But did you not fight him at all? He's not far from Rentar. EDIT: Darn you, Synergy! [ Friday, December 16, 2005 11:12: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, December 16 2005 11:58
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We are amused. The second I posted my reply, both mine and yours appeared in sequence together. Split-second timing. Seems to be catching 'round here lately. -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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Electric Sheep One
Member # 3431
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written Friday, December 16 2005 12:23
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quote:How do we know how much preparation went into her first getaway? We do know that her preparations at her final fortress have been more hurried, and teleportation is probably pretty hairy stuff. And there's no reason to assume that pylons have to work equally well or easily both ways. Sheesh, people. In a game with all kinds of outright magic, it seems to me that there is bound to be enough wiggle room for rationalizing things like this. Work with the man a bit. -------------------- We're not doing cool. We're doing pretty. Posts: 3335 | Registered: Thursday, September 4 2003 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, December 16 2005 12:50
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Once you have magic in a game, pretty much anything you think up is "possible" in any way you want it to be. Why dissect it as if it were science? I find it rather intuitively silly and not much in line with previous Averna that a crystal soul can move itself around in the first place. But I can't argue about whether or not it should be possible. -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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BANNED
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written Friday, December 16 2005 14:00
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who is the main foe other then rentar and what are these giant monsters and when do you encounter a strange paranoia that makes it so people will kill you even if they are some mayor? -------------------- join me! we shall harness the power of geckos, bunnys, and fluffy pink stuffed animals and rule the world!!! Posts: 193 | Registered: Wednesday, December 14 2005 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Friday, December 16 2005 14:05
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quote:Let's just assume that Rentar is still insanely powerful and intelligent. That should account for her self-teleporting. I mean seriously, she's supposed to be the most powerful vahnatai mage out there. -------------------- Thuryl: "Runescape: for people who are too stupid to save their games." Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, December 16 2005 14:39
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I would have rather faced her as an Hwraithe, I suppose. I have no idea what the "rules" for crystal souls are supposed to be, so I went with the premise. -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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The Establishment
Member # 6
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written Friday, December 16 2005 15:04
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quote:Yeah, if this were the ONLY thing he rationalized. Unfortunately, Jeff has a tired and predictable pattern that he's fallen into. At least he provided a paper thin explanation, but still, I felt the pylon is sheer laziness. Rather than making a real means of escape, Jeff resorts to authorial magic to do his dirty work...same complaint I have in A3. -------------------- Your flower power is no match for my glower power! Posts: 3726 | Registered: Tuesday, September 18 2001 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Friday, December 16 2005 15:19
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Facing a living or undead incarnation of our final foe would have been more satisfying for more of us, I think. You wouldn't believe how basic and boring the original final conflict was in the first beta I saw. I, and no doubt, other testers asked for more elements and foes in the final fight and we got a few more, at the least. I would have liked to have seen some kind of serious ambush though. That final series of fights in A3 seemed worthy of someone so powerful and powerfully protected. In A4 it's surprisingly meek, the nasty V-Lord notwithstanding. I also just realized there are no animated cutscenes in A4 at all, just text and pictures at the start and end. All this kind of reminds me of how Civilization 3 was after Civ 2. Civ 3 had a whole new engine and many improved elements, but it was only halfway there and had some bad flaws, and it has taken another game afterwards to apparently really put some polish on it and get it right. (Civ 4) That's kind of how I think A4 has turned out—a lot of improvements and changes with a new engine which hopefully will be much better polished in A5—and it better reinclude elevation or I will vote with my feet. I personally enjoy fewer bugs and blobs and critters to fight, and more intelligent adversaries like the bandits and mages. It's more satisfying bantering with and then dispatching a human adversary than going on "another bug hunt". The lack of dervishes or true soldiers in this game to fight was a little disappointing. I always enjoy dispatching some smug 'n' snotty Empire Dervish. -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |