Creationless Shaper
| Author | Topic: Creationless Shaper |
|---|---|
|
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
|
written Thursday, June 15 2006 17:34
Profile
Following my dissertation advisor's advice if you want people to reply put out a statement that people will want to corrrect. I'm wondering how far into the game people have run shapers before making their first creation? Running a bullseye shaper allows you to delay until you are able to make a higher level creation or have several levels in a shaping skill. In GF2 I can get through 8 sections before I need a creation. The Crags and Western Drypeak Mines are too hard for a lone shaper without considerable retreating using speed pods to avoid getting swarmed. I'm trying something similar in GF3 since Alwan and Greta substitute for creations. I'm holding out until after at least the Testing Grounds where I can get an artila and concentrate my shaping skills in the magic area. This way by the time I can get vlish, I will be able to create ones with about 10 levels in magic shaping. Is it better to wait until you can't get at least one level of shaping for each level of advancement? Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Thursday, June 15 2006 17:46
Profile
Homepage
At first this indeed seems like a good strategy -- but it has a flaw. As a Shaper, it is to your advantage to create creatures at the earliest level you can. This is because of the experience your creations will gain. When you are at a lower level, your experience gained scales more advantageously, of course, and therefore your creations gain more levels. A single chance for seven creations to get an extra level up permanently is better than a single level gain for a PC, since by the end of the game that will have eroded into a small fraction of a level's worth of XP. The exception of course is if the skill points a level up will net you will give you points in a Shaping skill up to 10. However, even when your Shaping skills are not optimized yet, it is still to your advantage to keep lots of creations around. Reducing the experience you gain slightly means that better creations become available when you are at a lower level, and therefore they will be more powerful for the entire game. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
|
His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
|
written Thursday, June 15 2006 18:00
Profile
I noticed that my Bullseye Shaper could indeed, go with out his creations. A few times I actually left them behind intentionally to sneak around. And if somebody caught me alone, by George, I let them have it. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
|
Warrior
Member # 5118
|
written Friday, June 16 2006 03:22
Profile
Guardian can go without that -------------------- This apple? no. That apple? no. What about that orange? no. "What DO YOU WANT!!!!" 'Wink' "I want the apple you are eating." Posts: 87 | Registered: Sunday, October 24 2004 07:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
|
written Friday, June 16 2006 03:34
Profile
I compared the experience after doing 3 sections and the difference was almost nothing. Having one extra creation doesn't make much difference, but it helps if it starts out strong enough that you don't need to up grade it. quote:Yeah, but a shaper is supposed to use creations. If I wanted to fight all the time without them then I would just run an agent. The extra starting dexterity and intelligence make it easier than a guardian that can barely use magic to buff up himself. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
|
Infiltrator
Member # 6652
|
written Friday, June 16 2006 12:54
Profile
Getting to the Testing Grounds without a creation is easy. Stealth through the large creation patrols, and get enough mechanics to beat the test easy. -------------------- But I don't want to ride the elevator. Posts: 420 | Registered: Sunday, January 8 2006 08:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
|
written Friday, June 16 2006 17:57
Profile
Actually using daze it's easy to stun and kill all the patrols. I even ran all three types: agent, guardian, and shaper, with Alwan and Greta through the combat part of the Testing Ground for the extra experience. No stealth needed. I found the reason for shapers using creations earlier as Slarty recommended is that instead of increasing shaping skills you can put the skill points to leadership, mechanics, luck, and dexterity earlier on in the game to get experience from dealing with NPCs and dropped treasure. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Friday, June 16 2006 18:25
Profile
Homepage
Dexterity? -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
|
written Friday, June 16 2006 20:49
Profile
Dexterity allows you to dodge the rogue worms in the basement of Greenwood Academy. It also helps in going earlier and as a missle character. Under Fort K you can move up and daze all the worms to fulfill that quest. Dexterity doesn't help with leadership conversations or that stupid trap that you test. I think my shaper is more like a mental dexterous agent than a true shaper. Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Saturday, June 17 2006 02:56
Profile
Homepage
The Fort Kentia worms were a huge hassle for me as a missile agent. I cast Daze countless times, and still had to do a few reloads. On Torment, of course. They had been much easier as a regular, spellslinging agent, because Daze lasted longer and one hit from a spell would take out any worm. I suppose I could have been less stingy with my Icy Crystals, but neh... -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
|
written Saturday, June 17 2006 19:57
Profile
I didn't have trouble with the dazed worms as any type (agent, guardian or shaper). It's those extra ones that appear behind you that are elsewhere in the basement. I forgot to check behind me and kept getting nailed by them. I'm trying something different as a guardian with pushing leadership and mechanics instead of intelligence for spells. It seem that you get more experience for the leadership option than in killing directly. Fort Kentia artila is 30 XP for leadership versus 12 for killing. The thahds at the guarded bridge needs leadership 7 and I'm trying to find where they retreated to so I can kill them. They got me 240 XP where I get about a third for killing all 5. [ Saturday, June 17, 2006 20:55: Message edited by: Randomizer ] Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |
|
Apprentice
Member # 7152
|
written Saturday, June 17 2006 21:34
Profile
I think that when the bridge thahds retreat, they disappear entirely. I've never seen them again after I used leadership on them. In fact, since I usually off the leader first when I fight them, at least two run away before I can get them all, unless I've dazed them. And they're gone from the map. (I'm assuming that killing the leader is what triggers the bridge thahds to flee, but to be honest I have no idea why they run. I don't get to follow them because the rogue fyora and thahd nearby come up and I have to deal with them or risk dying, so the fleeing thahds get away.) Question: If you complete one side of the testing grounds, can you later return and complete the other side? I've always done the leadership/trap/stealth test (because three turrets would kill my party, and I don't dare even look at the other fights). Could I return with a stronger party and get a little xp for going through the fighting part, or will the enemies not appear once you've completed the test? By the way, one thing that I noticed about going the leadership route: You don't get the items that you would get if you killed the creations in combat. No thahd skin tunic, no fancy dagger, and no dexterity belt. Posts: 18 | Registered: Monday, May 22 2006 07:00 |
|
Law Bringer
Member # 6785
|
written Sunday, June 18 2006 04:29
Profile
On the Testing Ground, I just tried leaving and returning to the place, you can do both sides. You can get the individual experience for each test by killing the monsters and deactivating the traps, but only once the test experience for each of the 3 pairs of traps. The summoned creatures combat skill tests provide more experience for a little more difficulty. The thahds on the bridge need to be attacked as friendlies, but only their leader is worthwhile killing. They can't be dazed with the leadership option. If you attack quickly enough you can kill the leader for the thahd shirt and a point of XP. [ Saturday, June 24, 2006 18:17: Message edited by: Randomizer ] Posts: 4643 | Registered: Friday, February 10 2006 08:00 |