OK, folks, looks like I can port my tools to a Mac...

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AuthorTopic: OK, folks, looks like I can port my tools to a Mac...
Chivlan
Lifecrafter
Member # 3608
 written Sunday, November 21 2004 00:09 Profile Homepage #25
Being more respectable than me doesn't require much, though.. ^^

[ Sunday, November 21, 2004 00:10: Message edited by: 3608 ]

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The Great Mister

kommari@gmail.com[/url]
Posts: 972 | Registered: Tuesday, October 28 2003 08:00
Arenax
Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
 written Sunday, November 21 2004 06:40 Profile Homepage #26
quote:
Originally written by Walker, Texas Corpse:

Are you the type of person that, when tapped on the shoulder, spins around with a left hook in mid-air? Because that's how you're coming off. Extremely touchy and defensive.
And I quote:

"Why not use a cross-platform toolkit like wxWidgets that works in a decent language?"

Sounds rather offensive to me. Oh, wait--I don't always use the Holy Grail of computer languages, so I must be wrong.

quote:

It hasn't been my intention to be "offensive" towards you in this or any other thread. In this thread, I just offered advice (which you requested via email as well); in the only other one in which we have had any contact, we had a disagreement and what I would characterize as a "lively debate" regarding the relative merits of different languages. You're the one who, immediately, accused me of being under the influence of drugs for holding a particular opinion on programming languages. Your baseless ad hominem attacks have only gotten worse.
I held no issue with you in the other thread; that was one I enjoyed. But attacking me for daring to use a language you find fault with (which is what that previous quote was, in case you didn't notice) is reason enough for me to bring it up a few levels.

Oh, and IIRC, the e-mail I sent pertained to an inquiry as to features and other user-centric facets of a program--not the code itself.

I'm not a person who believes in turning the other cheek. So sue me.

quote:

By the way, if you think that being around in '98 and having your "unbeatable monster" whipped by Thuryl makes you any more respectable than, say, TGM or anyone else, you're sadly mistaken. Perhaps if you had been around since then. Perhaps if you had made any real contribution since. Perhaps if, upon returning, you hadn't presented yourself as incredibly arrogant and irrational.
Strange, I wasn't attempting to be arrogant--I've simply stated facts as I see them and refused to put up with crap. People who remember me from then will probably tell you that I was always this way. I listen to reasoned opinions; I ignore those who aren't.

quote:

Seniority requires presence. Even if you had that, it still wouldn't protect you from being seen as an ass if you act like an ass. A little bit of humility goes a long way, you know.
"Those who can, do." I do what I can, and I don't put up with crap from people who I don't respect. You're okay, I'll give you that. I respect you to a degree, probably moreso than most because you know what you're talking about.

There's no way in hell I'm going to be anything remotely close to polite with those who beg for tools to make BoA scripting easier and then whine when they get the tools "because they're not done right" in some indefinable way.

I get along fine with TM, Kelandon, Khoth, and a number of others--because they can do things (and do do things) and have earned my respect.

And were you anyone else, I'd tell you to get a clue--but I do think you have one and simply can't quite find it at the moment.
Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00
Arenax
Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
 written Sunday, November 21 2004 06:53 Profile Homepage #27
I'd like a straight answer to a question, if I may.

Last I checked, I have offered to port my stuff to the Mac. This is a chore that brings me no personal benefit whatsoever. I'm also considering making it open-source, an ideology to which I do not hold, for the benefit of all of you people.

So why, exactly, did you begin by piling on me because I "wasn't doing it right"? I fully expect all of those who have complained not to use my software--they're insisting it's done badly sight unseen, so obviously they won't try it--but I want to know--why?

Why are you attacking me for doing y'all a service that I personally could do well without?
Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00
Chivlan
Lifecrafter
Member # 3608
 written Sunday, November 21 2004 07:14 Profile Homepage #28
Giving advice on how to do something better isn't quite the same as saying "Don't do it."

No one's attacking you, but you yourself. ^^

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The Great Mister

kommari@gmail.com[/url]
Posts: 972 | Registered: Tuesday, October 28 2003 08:00
Arenax
Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
 written Sunday, November 21 2004 07:18 Profile Homepage #29
"Use a decent language" is just a wee bit of an attack in my book, especially considering I've explained why I didn't want to use C/C++ or Java.

EDIT: Oh, and BTW--the entire issue is rather moot. I've offered to do something for the community that will not benefit me in the slightest and it seems a number of people are looking a gift horse in the mouth. Criticism is fine--if it's constructive criticism that can be leveraged into something useful. "Use a decent language" when the project is already mostly completed is not constructive, now, is it?

[ Sunday, November 21, 2004 07:21: Message edited by: Arenaqs ]
Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00
Chivlan
Lifecrafter
Member # 3608
 written Sunday, November 21 2004 07:38 Profile Homepage #30
So you missed the "Why not use a cross-platform toolkit like wxWidgets that works in a decent language?" and "Then you wouldn't have to port anything." parts of his post?

--------------------
The Great Mister

kommari@gmail.com[/url]
Posts: 972 | Registered: Tuesday, October 28 2003 08:00
Arenax
Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
 written Sunday, November 21 2004 07:40 Profile Homepage #31
quote:
Originally written by but babey u make me so sad:

So you missed the "Why not use a cross-platform toolkit like wxWidgets that works in a decent language?" and "Then you wouldn't have to port anything." parts of his post?
Not at all. But I explained why that didn't work and he continued in the same vein. The program was already mostly done, and is about 60% done after two days of work (whereas in C++ or Python it'd be somewhere around 5%, but that's another story), and he continued along the lines of "use a decent language."
Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00
UA
Infiltrator
Member # 154
 written Sunday, November 21 2004 07:53 Profile #32
Mr. Blacken, various groups of programmers would generally consider RAD tools to be extremely inferior. In fact, I beieve they're more scripting, than programming.

Generally speaking, if you're patient enough, you can come up with a better and more reliable program in C[++] than if you used RAD.

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Apparently still annoying.
Posts: 612 | Registered: Saturday, October 13 2001 07:00
Kelandon
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
 written Sunday, November 21 2004 08:57 Profile Homepage #33
I think that last post was the first one that even hinted at a "If you're not going to do it right, don't do it at all" mentality. That's just something you made up, Arenax. Go back and re-read.

Moreover, no one attacked you until you started insulting Djur. Djur may not be a big-name designer, but he's our friend.

Also, I think the "use a decent language" comment was more intended to deal with the "cons" in your original post than it was to attack you. Stareye said much the same thing: there's no hurry. If there's some question about whether you'll make it, we'd rather something than nothing, but if you're going to make it, you might as well make it well.

If it's almost done, then I guess there's no point in talking about it anymore. If you weren't going to listen to us anyway, I'm not sure why you asked our opinion. And don't pretend: you said yourself that the program was already mostly done by the time Djur suggested to use a different language, which was less than four hours after you first posted. If you were too far along in the process to listen to anyone after four hours, you weren't going to listen to anyone at all.

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
EDWARD, HAMMER OF THE SCOTS
Warrior
Member # 5091
 written Sunday, November 21 2004 09:33 Profile #34
How does my belief that the BASIC family of languages are poor have anything to do with you? You yourself said that the REALbasic toolkit doesn't allow tabbed controls -- to me, that's a pretty major flaw.

It's like if you said "I'm thinking of buying some nice Safeway brand cutlery," and I said "Buy something decent like Wusthof." The reasonable response would not be to shriek "WHY ARE YOU BEING SO OFFENSIVE? DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M DOING FOR YOU?"

Kelandon is right. Your motives for posting this thread are not clear, since it seems that you're going to take any suggestions as insults.
Posts: 180 | Registered: Friday, October 15 2004 07:00
Arenax
Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
 written Monday, November 22 2004 06:15 Profile Homepage #35
quote:
Originally written by Walker, Texas Corpse:

How does my belief that the BASIC family of languages are poor have anything to do with you? You yourself said that the REALbasic toolkit doesn't allow tabbed controls -- to me, that's a pretty major flaw.

It's like if you said "I'm thinking of buying some nice Safeway brand cutlery," and I said "Buy something decent like Wusthof." The reasonable response would not be to shriek "WHY ARE YOU BEING SO OFFENSIVE? DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M DOING FOR YOU?"

Kelandon is right. Your motives for posting this thread are not clear, since it seems that you're going to take any suggestions as insults.
1) The program was already written in VB; all that was necessary was porting. I have stated that previously. The only thing I asked was whether I should port to Mac, given the problems.

2) It actually does support tabs; you've just got to look around. I hadn't found that in the system's controls.

3) "Use a decent language" is not a form of criticism that assists development of a better program, especially considering how I had said that I was using RB for reasons already outlined.

But of course--Djur must be right. How dare I question him. :rolleyes:

[ Monday, November 22, 2004 06:21: Message edited by: Arenaqs ]
Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00
Morgan
Shaper
Member # 22
 written Monday, November 22 2004 08:44 Profile #36
Most sensible thing you've said in quite some time.
Posts: 2862 | Registered: Tuesday, October 2 2001 07:00
EDWARD, HAMMER OF THE SCOTS
Warrior
Member # 5091
 written Monday, November 22 2004 08:44 Profile #37
Yes, it is. If you said "I'm using INTERCAL to develop my new office suite!" anyone would be justified in saying "INTERCAL sucks, use a real language."

Regarding tabbed controls -- I was working off what you said. I progressed beyond VB and its ilk in 1999, so I have no idea what RB supports except what you said.

Why do you ask "Should I rewrite my tools in language X?" if you're not interested in hearing criticisms of that language? Are you the only person entitled to an opinion in the wide world of computer science?
Posts: 180 | Registered: Friday, October 15 2004 07:00
Arenax
Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
 written Monday, November 22 2004 08:55 Profile Homepage #38
What was the question I asked, Djur?

"Should I port my tools to the Mac?"
Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00
EDWARD, HAMMER OF THE SCOTS
Warrior
Member # 5091
 written Monday, November 22 2004 09:26 Profile #39
Um, part of that decision is the decision whether REALbasic is sufficient. You said as much.
Posts: 180 | Registered: Friday, October 15 2004 07:00
Arenax
Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
 written Monday, November 22 2004 09:31 Profile Homepage #40
quote:
Originally written by Walker, Texas Corpse:

Um, part of that decision is the decision whether REALbasic is sufficient. You said as much.
quote:
Originally written by Arenax:

Should I bite the bullet and start figuring out REALbasic in order to port AvScript and AvDialogue to Macintosh?
I'd argue that'd be a secondary clause myself (sort of like "use a decent language"), but that's an argument of semantics. I'm too tired to argue at the moment; I'm too busy using my AvDialogue2 beta to make a dialogue script for my scenario. :D

[ Monday, November 22, 2004 10:46: Message edited by: Air 'N Ax ]
Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00
Arenax
Shock Trooper
Member # 5181
 written Tuesday, November 23 2004 13:43 Profile Homepage #41
Status update (though why I'm bothering is beyond me):

The port's status is at about 75-80% workable. I had a HD problem that seems to have nuked the most recent version, which was almost releaseable.

Thanks to Thuryl for helping me out on something regarding it.

I should have a working version by Friday, as I've planned.
Posts: 262 | Registered: Thursday, November 11 2004 08:00

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