Leylines once more
| Author | Topic: Leylines once more |
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Master Jeweller
Member # 409
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written Monday, September 1 2003 00:05
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Hi there, Crystal Shard is back with what hopefully will be the final beta version of Leylines. The download link is: http://www.liacs.nl/~psimoons/ley_inst.exe (windows) http://www.liacs.nl/~psimoons/leylinux.tar.gz (i386 linux) (that would be a turn-based strategy game in a fantasy setting, for those that didn't know or weren't involved in earlier beta-testing). NOTE that some options in the game are not accessible yet. These include the Race and Magic selectors, and the Heroes button. This is because we're still working on play balance there. The first beta had a bug that occasionally popped up a 'register now' window. That was a bug (the window in fact was from SubTerra  ); there isno way (yet) to register and you aren't locked out of anything by not doing so. Because of the reactions on the first beta we've added some more features after all. These include a hotkey system for spells, some special terrain resources (one of which heals undead units), and the ability to build watchtowers. We're still working on a decent AI but making good progress (which unfortunately isn't visible in this version). Finally, you can see the game's relative speed in the lower left corner. This does skyrocket on some computers. However should it drop below 100% for a lengthy amount of time please let me know. Everybody, thanks for your feedback and support so far. If you see any other bugs I'd be happy to kill them for you. -------------------- Freude, schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heilighthum! Deine Zauber binden wieder, was die Mode streng getheilt, Alle Menschen werden Brüder, wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt. Pieter Simoons aka Radiant Official Crystal Shard and SubTerra webpage Posts: 798 | Registered: Monday, December 17 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 517
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written Wednesday, September 3 2003 10:31
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I have some bugs: In the tutorial, clicking the Diplomacy button closes Leylines, and entering the combat freezes the computer (did so twice). When scouting with a scout the screen suddenly went yellow and the computer jammed. I don't have a clue why, although he may have run into a combat? There's no music, although this is probably intentional. The button saying 'continue' after loading is complete isn't really necessary; no-one is particularly likely not to want to continue... When do we get a version with more enabled? -E- EDIT: Oh, and you really need more in the map editor. A user-friendly (and by user-friendly I mean non-programmer-friendly) scripter would be useful, as well as tools that fill in more than one square at once...and maybe a 'randomly generate map' button. And under the quickstart menu, we could do with a couple of options about the map: how mineral-rich/food-rich/mana-rich it is, what percentage of it is water, whether the non-water is small islands or a single continent, etc. -E- [ Thursday, September 04, 2003 06:45: Message edited by: Omlette ] -------------------- Let them eat cake! Polaris Boards: The System is Up. Perennially. Posts: 2314 | Registered: Tuesday, January 15 2002 08:00 |
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Master Jeweller
Member # 409
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written Friday, September 5 2003 02:23
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Thank you Omelette. Bugs noted. No music was intentional. But I have some good tunes found! By the way I'd like to know what you think of the special resources (i.e. gold mine, Leyline, healing pool etc) I'm still looking into what would make a scripting language more useful. I guess I'll just simplify it a lot and provide some sample scripts. -------------------- Freude, schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heilighthum! Deine Zauber binden wieder, was die Mode streng getheilt, Alle Menschen werden Brüder, wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt. Pieter Simoons aka Radiant Official Crystal Shard and SubTerra webpage Posts: 798 | Registered: Monday, December 17 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 517
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written Friday, September 5 2003 04:04
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Well, the thing that's confusing me about the scripting language to date is the lack of commands to take data from what is happening in the game and use it to make other things happen in the game. At the moment, all one can do with it is manipulate variables. And I haven't actually had a chance to see the extra resources, due to the aforementioned yellow-screen bug. I'll continue to play, though. -E- -------------------- Let them eat cake! Polaris Boards: The System is Up. Perennially. Posts: 2314 | Registered: Tuesday, January 15 2002 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 3082
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written Saturday, September 6 2003 13:26
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Well, I've never even seen C, let alone tried to program it, so a trigger based scripting language could go a long way towards helping those of us who have little or no experience with programming. I've also experienced Omelette's bugs, and my random scenario map keeps bugging out on the second turn. Leylines will minimize, and then dies when I try to call it back up. I've only tried one scenario, but it gives me this error message in the Error file: [ScrnErr] Failed to initialize the screen. You should reboot your computer and try again. If the problem persists there may be something wrong with your system setup. Also, the little percentage readout in the bottom left corner is never anywhere near 100%. It may reach 90% in a city screen, the mirror, or other places, but it has been known to fall to 25% on the map screen, though it usually hangs around 50%. Finally, where did the main Leylines beta topic go? I thought it was in the SubTerra forum, but I can't find it there anymore. Posts: 54 | Registered: Saturday, June 7 2003 07:00 |
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Master Jeweller
Member # 409
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written Monday, September 8 2003 01:03
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MW -> No, it was in this forum. But topics occasionally get removed by the mods when they're old and haven't gotten any replies lately. So consider this thread the new Leylines beta thread. I wonder what your system specs are? I guess on some systems the counter just won't get up to 100 anyway. As long as the game is playable I won't mind. As to the crash, that's annoying yes. It could be a screensaver popping up? -------------------- Freude, schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heilighthum! Deine Zauber binden wieder, was die Mode streng getheilt, Alle Menschen werden Brüder, wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt. Pieter Simoons aka Radiant Official Crystal Shard and SubTerra webpage Posts: 798 | Registered: Monday, December 17 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 517
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written Monday, September 8 2003 03:24
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My screensaver is turned off. And my computer is a Pentium 3 800 with 384 MB of RAM, so it should be able to handle Leylines...although it has got WinME, which could be the problem... -E- -------------------- Let them eat cake! Polaris Boards: The System is Up. Perennially. Posts: 2314 | Registered: Tuesday, January 15 2002 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 3082
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written Monday, September 8 2003 14:10
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It's probably not a screensaver, since it hasen't crashed when I have left it. My system is an HP Pavilion with a Celeron 733 and 192 MB RAM. Last I checked that was plenty. However, it's also running Windows ME. A few of my other games will randomly flicker to minimize, but they (usually) come back. However, the fight bug is driving me into the hills. Can you write a patch or something so we can keep debugging this beta, or will we just have to wait for Leylines Beta/3? I do like the new features, though, but I haven't gotten to try many of the new spells. As for the %, it is definitely still playable. Now for a bug. I was out scouting out the map, and came across a raider town. When I clicked their tech tree button, the game crashed. Error.txt called it a "normal exit". Edit: Found the old thread. I'm not sure if you fixed this in Leylines Beta/2 or not, so I'll report it anyway. Might of Giants did not require mana to sustain in Beta/1, so I'd just enchant my whole army with it. I didn't try Eagle's Flight, but Rejuvenation did require 7 mana per turn. Strange. I'll check it in the current version. [ Monday, September 08, 2003 14:25: Message edited by: Machiavellian Wizard ] Posts: 54 | Registered: Saturday, June 7 2003 07:00 |
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Master Jeweller
Member # 409
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written Wednesday, September 10 2003 02:10
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If the game crashes on you again, please find the autosave.ley file and send it to me (psimoons@liacs.nl), that might help. I'll just come with a beta 0.21 quickly, it's no fun for everybody if it keeps crashing. Good to hear the speed is at least decent. Might of Giants and Eagle's Flight do have an upkeep now (1 mana/week). And Rejuv is a lot more expensive because it affects ALL your units. Some of the other planned enchantments include Invis and Magick Shield. -------------------- Freude, schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heilighthum! Deine Zauber binden wieder, was die Mode streng getheilt, Alle Menschen werden Brüder, wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt. Pieter Simoons aka Radiant Official Crystal Shard and SubTerra webpage Posts: 798 | Registered: Monday, December 17 2001 08:00 |
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Master Jeweller
Member # 409
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written Tuesday, September 16 2003 01:46
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Okay that took slightly longer than expected because of a faulty floppy drive. Anyway. Beta 0.21 is now online which is basically the same as 0.20 but it shouldn't crash any more (but feel free to doublecheck this). http://www.liacs.nl/~psimoons/ley_inst.exe (note that the linux version has not yet been updated) -------------------- Freude, schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heilighthum! Deine Zauber binden wieder, was die Mode streng getheilt, Alle Menschen werden Brüder, wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt. Pieter Simoons aka Radiant Official Crystal Shard and SubTerra webpage Posts: 798 | Registered: Monday, December 17 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 517
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written Tuesday, September 16 2003 06:39
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On being automatically alt-tabbed out of Leylines by a chat window opening, and then trying to alt-tab back in, the program closes and I recieve this error message: [TitleSc] Restoring display mode [TitleSc] Operation requires the application to have exclusive mode but the application does not have exclusive mode. [ScrnErr] Failed to initialize the screen. You should reboot your computer and try again. If the problem persists there may be something wrong with your system setup. Plus, clicking 'diplomacy' in the tutorial still closes the program without an error message. The only way to get from the level editor to the main menu is to click 'file' and then 'quit game'. Is there a difference between astral void and vortex (apart from the graphic, obviously)? If not, maybe vortex could go? On the terrain list in the map editor, the bottom six options (mountain to archipelago, I think) appear at the top of the next list of terrain options. Note that this could be fixed if you removed vortex, since it would then all fit on one page-my reason for suggesting it in the first place. The scripting language needs work. Specifically, your current scripting language is way to complex for non-programmers (like, say, myself. Actually, I can, or more accurately could, program in QBasic, and it's still too complex for me.) I've an idea for a simpler method, but it's only vague at the moment. I'll write it up and send you an e-mail. One last thing: I don't think it necessarily adds anything to the game for all of the fullscreen background graphics to be semi-clad females. Just a thought. On the positive side, the tutorial can now be played right through, and does indeed summarise the majority of the game quite effectively. And I like the little easter egg at the end. -E- [ Tuesday, September 16, 2003 07:02: Message edited by: Omlette ] -------------------- Let them eat cake! Polaris Boards: The System is Up. Perennially. Posts: 2314 | Registered: Tuesday, January 15 2002 08:00 |
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Master Jeweller
Member # 409
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written Wednesday, September 17 2003 05:54
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Omlette -> Buts noted, thanks. Vortices produce more mana than Void. The terrain needs to scroll anyway in low-resolution mode so the scrolling option exists :/ I'll think of something for the scripting language. And I'm not sure what scantily-clad females you're referring to, but have you checked the screenshots? www.liacs.nl/~psimoons/lshots.htm -------------------- Freude, schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heilighthum! Deine Zauber binden wieder, was die Mode streng getheilt, Alle Menschen werden Brüder, wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt. Pieter Simoons aka Radiant Official Crystal Shard and SubTerra webpage Posts: 798 | Registered: Monday, December 17 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 517
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written Wednesday, September 17 2003 08:47
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Um, the point I'm making about the background pictures is actually perfectly illustrated by the fifth screenshot down. That kind of background really isn't necessary. The rest look really cool, though. Other points: 1) About the special terrain things: I think things like Monastery would be more logical if they generated, say, 5 research per priest camped there and 3 research per healer. Likewise mines for engineers. 2) I think the city happiness needs to be quantified-I don't like that I can't tell whether the happiness is going to go up or down next turn. Also, I think there should be a fifth job slot-something like 'entertainers' or 'jesters' which generate a bit of happiness automatically. Also, a rule called something like 'rugged individualism' or 'colonial spirit' which means that happiness can't change in settlements with a population of under, say, 5000-since, obviously, it's harder to make these ones happy. 3) About Leylines: since they share the name of the game, I think they could be given a more special property. I don't know what yet...maybe leylines are actually lines, that only show up in spell-casting mode or whatever, and if you have apprentice mages or wizards camped where they cross, spells on the leylines that you 'control' are more powerful. I don't know how clear that was... 4) Maybe you could put in some rules for random generation of 'story events'? Say there are some special terrain things where instead of you gaining some resource from going to them, a randomly generated text box pops up with something like 'This is a mercenary camp. You can pay x gold to hire troops here' or 'This is a dragon's cave. Do you want to enter' (and if you do, you have to fight the dragon but you gain some treasure: maybe some money, or a wand which you then give to one of your units to give it a powerful ranged attack, or boots of speed...loads of possibilities, really) 5) Experience generation for standing still doing nothing is too high. Also, it would be nice if there were more than three levels-maybe the stats change slightly at each level-up, but then they get a promotion after five level-ups, and get a new ability, like blessing becoming more effective, or more shots before combat for archers, or something. I dunno. -E- -------------------- Let them eat cake! Polaris Boards: The System is Up. Perennially. Posts: 2314 | Registered: Tuesday, January 15 2002 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 3082
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written Wednesday, September 17 2003 13:39
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Downloading the new demo now. Assuming the bug fixes work, this is going to be a pretty cool game. The screenshots look cool, but I'm assuming you're going to leave out the big graphics until the final release. I agree with Omelette about the special terrain types. Otherwise I'll just stick skeletons on them and forget them. Posts: 54 | Registered: Saturday, June 7 2003 07:00 |
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Babelicious
Member # 3149
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written Wednesday, September 17 2003 19:04
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Mr. Simoons -- don't worry about Omlette. He's just a horrific prude. -------------------- You are my precious thing Thing of speed and beauty, You are my precious thing As long as you remain beneath me -- Big Black Posts: 999 | Registered: Friday, June 27 2003 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Wednesday, September 17 2003 22:23
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Eh, anyone who lists Iain Banks among his favourite authors can't be too much of a prude. Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 517
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written Thursday, September 18 2003 03:13
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Meh, I suspect Djur is more right than wrong. However, I would just point out that my views in this respect are definitely not unique to me, even among Leylines' potential audience. Plus the fact that there is no real reason to put them in. -E- -------------------- Let them eat cake! Polaris Boards: The System is Up. Perennially. Posts: 2314 | Registered: Tuesday, January 15 2002 08:00 |
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Master Jeweller
Member # 409
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written Thursday, September 18 2003 03:44
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Omlette -> Well, okay, the enchantress does have a certain lack of clothing. But I didn't find that picture particularly erotic or offensive. But then that's me (and I'm Dutch). So I'll ask around what people think. 1) true, that would be more logical. However it would be a bit annoying for the players. The reasoning behind the current setup is, that there are miners in a mine and scholars in a monastery, you just have to establish your presence there so they actually work for you. (it used to be just militant units to establish your presence but that, too, proved annoying for some testers; also it's unbalancing as the elves lack low-tech militant units). 2) Happiness goes up when 1) you throw a festival, 2) you win a battle near the city, and 3) you complete a building (oh, and 4) the peace monoliths) I'll add that to the FAQ. Happiness goes down otherwise, and moreso if you have too many militant units nearby or you levy a lot. In general happiness slowly erodes and you have to make an active effort to raise it. In small cities you can just as easily hold festivals, that would work in keeping them happy. However I agree that really small cities shouldn't desert you too easily. 3) that was clear, however see (1) for the problems with camping apprentices on a Leyline. They could make spells more powerful - however for some spells that doesn't really make sense (although I could give a skeleton more hitpoints or anything). Hm, i'll think about it, power levels would be nice actually. 4) This can sort of be done with the scripting language. Which still needs to be simplified, I know. Items where dropped from the to-do list as they are too complex for what they're worth (and tend to degenerate balance in most games). 5) I guess I could go up to five levels (even if it's hard to think of cool names at higher levels). But level-three units are really powerful already. MW -> True. But if you stick a skel on there, the resource is easily captured by an enemy. If you want more units on there, you may want to build a fortress to decrease the upkeep. -------------------- Freude, schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heilighthum! Deine Zauber binden wieder, was die Mode streng getheilt, Alle Menschen werden Brüder, wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt. Pieter Simoons aka Radiant Official Crystal Shard and SubTerra webpage Posts: 798 | Registered: Monday, December 17 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 517
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written Thursday, September 18 2003 04:10
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My point about levels is that maybe you could just have them having three different names, but each of these names spans, say, five levels, and each time they change name they get a special ability (say ballistas get to damage buildings, or priests get to cure plagues remotely? I dunno). About the random story-style specials: I meant that maybe you could put in a certain amount of story-style specials in the quickstart game. -E- -------------------- Let them eat cake! Polaris Boards: The System is Up. Perennially. Posts: 2314 | Registered: Tuesday, January 15 2002 08:00 |
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Master Jeweller
Member # 409
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written Monday, September 22 2003 00:57
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Omlette -> Random scenarios will have random events (or you can switch them off as the user if you don't like them; you can also switch off the random resources). However making more than three levels is something we discussed here, and we've decided that it adds more complexity without actually adding many benefits. -------------------- Freude, schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heilighthum! Deine Zauber binden wieder, was die Mode streng getheilt, Alle Menschen werden Brüder, wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt. Pieter Simoons aka Radiant Official Crystal Shard and SubTerra webpage Posts: 798 | Registered: Monday, December 17 2001 08:00 |
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Master Jeweller
Member # 409
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written Monday, September 22 2003 02:16
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My co-designer and balance tester replies the following (to Omlette's post) 1.This is actually bad for balance; it means a monastery either yields 30 research per turn (stacking six priests in there) or nothing (if you don't bother making priests). Six priests aren't too easy to kill for your enemies, either. This actually would decrease variety in the game. 2) You have point, this is not very clear at all times. However this is intentional; a ruler doesn't have all data neatly quantified. Also showing it means people will start checking their cities every turn to see if they're being ghosted. (a ghost is a special unit that decreases happiness in nearby cities). 3) Again, bad for balance. If I happen to have a Leyline nearby, then all my spells become more powerful. Actually 7 mana is worth quite a lot. 4) Story events are nice. Items are a bit doubtful. If they just boost a single unit, they're basically the same as an enchantment (Might of Giants, for instance). If they're only boosting heroes (like in most games), then they're boosting something that can already boost itself to a very high power level. 5) I disagree. It takes fifty turns for a unit to become rank-two by doing nothing (which implies training, of course). Of course putting a Castle or Arena Arcana in your cities helps. However adding skills at higher levels sounds like fun. (Radiant: Okay, most units now gain an additional skill at rank three). However thanks for the suggestions. -------------------- Freude, schöner Götterfunken, Tochter aus Elysium, Wir betreten feuertrunken, Himmlische, dein Heilighthum! Deine Zauber binden wieder, was die Mode streng getheilt, Alle Menschen werden Brüder, wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt. Pieter Simoons aka Radiant Official Crystal Shard and SubTerra webpage Posts: 798 | Registered: Monday, December 17 2001 08:00 |