Melee Skills Stats
| Author | Topic: Melee Skills Stats |
|---|---|
|
Shaper
Member # 6292
|
written Wednesday, December 21 2005 00:10
Profile
These results are from tests I ran on my fighter from near the end of my second game. If anyone has a save game near the end, perhaps we can do some comparisons to further figure out the effects of various skills upon combat stats. If anyone wants to do equivalent tests, it should probably be against the same Golems outside the library in Patrick's Tower for consistency. Melee Fighting Stats vs. Golems in Patrick’s Tower with Oozing Blade (11-33 damage, +5% hit chance) Strength 10 Dexterity 4 Melee 10 Quick Action 10 Defense 2 Quick Strike 7 Parry 2 Blademaster 3 Gymnastics 3 Anatomy 5 Lethal Blow 9 Riposte 3 +1AP due to shield 20 combat rounds total, fighter hasted 15 Action Points x4 =12 Hit Rounds 13 Action Points x13= 26 Hit Rounds 12 Action Points x3 = 6 Hit Rounds = 44 Hit Rounds in total (no misses) Total Hits in 20 rounds = 67 (includes QA second hits) Average Hit Rounds/Combat Round = 2.2 Average Hits/Combat Round = 3.35 (includes QA second hits) Quick Action additional hits out of 44 rounds = 23 = 52% Average Quick Action = 5% chance/point Lethal Blows out of 44 rounds = 12 = 27% Lethal Blow = 3% chance/point Average Normal Hit damage = 25 Average Lethal Blow hit damage = 35 Average Lethal Blow damage improvement over normal blow damage = 40% Ripostes (at 15%) out of appx. 38 attempted hits by Golems = 6 = 16% Riposte = 5%/point Parries (at 15%) out of appx. 38 attempted hits by Golems = 7 = 18% Parry = 9%/point Misses (at 73%) out of appx. 38 attempted hits by Golems = 9 = 24% 4 Dexterity + 3 Gymnastics + 2 Defense = 27% chance to be missed by Golem 2 Defense = 6%. 4 Dexterity + 3 Gymnastics = 21% = 3%/point of each. [EDIT OUT: Quick Strike stats messed up due to not accounting for +1AP shield] CONCLUSIONS: These are approximate guesses for the actual internal stats in the game: 1 point Quick Action adds 5% chance for second hit 1 point Lethal Blow adds 3% chance of a lethal blow at 40% ave. additional damage 1 point Riposte adds 5% chance to riposte 1 point Parry adds 7.5% chance to parry 1 point Quick Strike adds 1/10 bonus Action Point It would be good to find out how Dexterity and Gymnastics each affect one’s chance to be hit, though I’m not sure how that would be calculated against the unknown hit chance of any foe. For the Golem, each point of Dexterity or Gymnastics (if equal) adds about 3% less chance to be hit. 1 point Defense adds 3% less chance to be hit 1 point Dexterity or Gymnastics adds 3% (?) less chance to be hit [ Wednesday, December 21, 2005 20:49: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
|
Infiltrator
Member # 3040
|
written Wednesday, December 21 2005 07:26
Profile
In BoA, the chance of success for a given event did not increase linearly with the points in the relevant dependant skill. At one point I completely analyzed the effects of Lethal Blow skill in BoA. Unfortunately, this was at the Lyceum and I think the board purges there cleaned it out. I'm not sure I remember all the details, but it was something like, each point of Lethal Blow increases the chance that you'll do an automatic triple damage against an enemy of lower level than yourself. Chances were drastically reduced for enemies of greater level than yourself, up to a level 1.5 times that of your attacking PC. Higher than that and Lethal Blow would fail outright. I seem to remember the algorithm for determining chance of success being really weird and not making much sense. However, the skills in BoA and in A4 are very different; the latter's are capped at 30 like in the GFs whereas the former's aren't capped. So who knows. I do know that my method of analysis that worked so well for BoA won't work too well for A4. -------------------- 5.0.1.0.0.0.0.1.0... Posts: 508 | Registered: Thursday, May 29 2003 07:00 |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Wednesday, December 21 2005 07:41
Profile
Homepage
Very interesting. Defense is also supposed to affect chance to be hit, isn't it? It's also interesting that you got an average of +1.25 AP out of 7 Quick Strike. My level 1 test with 5 Quick Strike got an average of only +0.6 AP. So either there is a strange and unspidwebby QS effect curve, or something else affects bonus AP as well -- maybe the effect is greater at higher level -- or is it possible gymnastics can give bonus AP? ...WAIT... 13.25 average AP with no boost items, were you HASTED? Detail! If AP boosting works anything like in previous engines that should multiply the bonus AP just like the regular AP. So the Quick Strike effect is closer to 1/9. How many AP-boosting items are there in this game? I am starting to doubt the worthwhileness of investing in Quick Strike at all... -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
|
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
|
written Wednesday, December 21 2005 09:57
Profile
Homepage
My impression was that it's not worth getting a lot of Quick Strike, but it is worth getting maybe 5 or 8 or something, because you'll get a couple bonus action points (when hasted) regularly. Okay, test results: with 9 Quick Strike and two +1 AP items, out of twelve turns, my non-hasted fighter got 10 AP five times, 11 AP five times, and 12 AP twice. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 6292
|
written Wednesday, December 21 2005 10:19
Profile
quote:Oops, yes, you are right. 3% per level and I have Defense of a whopping 2 with this PC I used, which means it figures into the Dexterity/Gymnastics total which I was unable to isolate with this testing anyway. I'd have to start from scratch and construct a PC with only Dexterity, and then Gymnastics. For Defense we already know the value. I also heard that Hardiness reduced all kinds of damge by 1%/point. quote:Oops, again. Yes I was, for the simple convenience of getting in more hits and taking less damage. I edited the changes into the original stats. quote:Several pieces of Mercuric armor, of which only one can be worn by a PC at a time, and some Mercuric boots(?), so as Kel has done, I think you can reasonably wind up with +2AP through items on one PC. I think one spear also adds 1 AP, so if you were a pole fighter, perhaps 3 AP total. Kel, according to your test, you got an average of 10.75 AP per turn. With a base of 10 AP per turn with the two +1 AP items equipped, you got .75 extra AP/turn due to 9 Quick Strike, which = 6.25% AP/point of QS/turn. I got 9% in my test, and was guessing it is 10%. More tests should pin this down better. I am sure Lethal Blow has some kind of algorithm depending on relative level of PC to foe. So my test is only good for my PC vs. the Golem. Also, my PC is at Level 55 because I used to editor to give everyone XP to test Unlock Doors. I hadn't assigned any of the SP I got to the fighter PC, but his level is obviously made higher relative to the Golem. I bet if I went back and tried it with my fighter at Level 36 which he was before the test, he would get far fewer Lethal Blows. What I am mostly wondering, is whether the 40% extra damage is consistent, or if that varies too in some way? One thing that makes Lethal Blow less fun than it could be is that Jeff's worlds are constructed so you pretty much never come across a truly weak foe like a goblin or basic skeleton late in the game, which you could merrily pulverize with Lethal Blow. The monsters are always conveniently at or above your level as you follow the plot. [ Wednesday, December 21, 2005 10:57: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
|
Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
|
written Wednesday, December 21 2005 12:31
Profile
Homepage
1. Getting to 10 AP seems to be the only important thing. 10 AP gives you an extra action, and gets you to 15 AP when hasted for a third action. The power of bows and spells means you don't really need extra to move with. While you could layer items and skills on one character and get to 13.5 for 20 AP when hasted, that seems like a huge waste. 2. A quick look in the script confirms that there are 6 items giving +1 AP (3 armors, 1 spear, 1 shield, 1 footwear). I'm guessing there aren't duplicates in the game (one of these days I'll have to get back to playing it ;) 3. Quick Strike is a moderately priced investment for a fighter (14 for 4, 50 for 10) but expensive for an archer without melee skill (44 for 4, 80 for 10) and prohibitive for a mage (70 for 4, 106 for 10). Therefore: It seems like the easiest models for fairly consistent 10 AP turns would be: 2 melee warriors + 2 mages or archers: warriors get Fast on Feet, 4-6 points of Quick Strike, and 1 item; mages get 2 items 1 melee warrior + 3 mages or archers: warrior gets Fast on Feet, 8-10 points of Quick Strike; others get 2 items. While spending 44 of your archer's skill points might not seem too bad late game (especially since it reduces the points your warrior would need to spend), going the one item route also requires having Fast on Feet instead of another advantage (likely Divinely Touched). Late game, that means about 4 levels of Sharpshooter (in addition to the phantom DT defense bonus that may or may not exist). So I think I'm ready to start over on Torment. Unfortunately, I still can't find any *remotely* compelling reasons to use Sliths or Humans, so now I need to come up with a reason why my team will be wearing the same skimpy clothing, in strange bright colors. I think the answer is that they're superheroes. Hmm... IT'S CLOBBERIN' TIME! -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 6292
|
written Wednesday, December 21 2005 12:48
Profile
There are at least two Mercuric Leathers to be had in the game. I think one of the Craftsmen, possibly the one in Bargha, will make one for you, meaning you could have one for each PC if you wanted. I just reconstructed a Torment party with two nephils and two sliths, all Divinely Touched, one Elite Warrior, two with Natural Mage, one with Pure Spirit. The two mages will be an archer and a thief in addition to their magical duties. I made a fighter and thief/mage slith because it made XP penalties wind up 55-65% for each, which is about as high and as close to one another as I could get. I will give the sliths a shield, however. They will not wield poles. The fire resistance can't hurt. My melee meat shield is therefore a Divinely Touched Elite Warrior slith. You can't get any hardier than that, supposedly. I redid my Melee test a bit more unadulterated to compare results. Some are a bit different. Melee Fighting Stats for Level 33 human fighter (Nimble Fingers/Strong Will) vs. Golem in Patrick’s Tower using the Radiant Blade (11-30 damage) Strength 10 Dexterity 4 Melee Weapons 10 Quick Action 11 Defense 2 Quick Strike 7 Parry 5 Blademaster 3 Gymnastics 3 Anatomy 5 Lethal Blow 11 Riposte 3 [EDIT: +1AP due to shield not noted previously, and fixed QS stats throughout] 32 Combat Rounds total, unhasted 9 Action Points x13 = 13 Hit Rounds 10 Action Points x17 = 34 Hit Rounds 11 Action Points x 2 = 4 Hit Rounds Total Action Points = 309 = 9.7 AP per round average Base Action Points = 32 x 8 = 256 AP Total AP - Base AP = 53-32 (due to shield) AP due to Quick Strike = 21 Average Quick Strike Bonus per round = 21/32 = .66 AP Quick Strike bonus AP per turn per QS point = .66/7 = .09 ~10 Quick Strike points = 1 bonus AP Total Hit Rounds = 51 (no misses) Total Hits in 51 rounds (including QA second strikes) = 76 Average Hit Rounds/Combat Round = 1.6 Average Hits/Combat Round = 2.4 Quick Action additional hits out of 51 Hit Rounds = 25 = 50% Average Quick Action = 50%/11 = 4.5% chance/point Lethal Blows out of 51 rounds = 20 = 39% Lethal Blow = 39%/11 = 3.5% chance/point (at Level 33 vs. Golem) Total Lethal Blow Damage = 928 Total Lethal Blows = 29 (including QA second strikes) Average Lethal Blow hit damage = 32 Total Normal Hit Damage = 978 Total Normal Hits (including QA second strikes) = 47 Average Normal Hit damage = 21 Average Lethal Blow damage improvement = 11 Average Lethal Blow damage improvement over normal blow damage = 52% Parries (at 30%) out of 52 attempted hits by Golem = 15 = 29% Parry = 29%/5 = 5.8%/point Ripostes (at 15%) out of 52 attempted hits by Golem = 5 = 10% Riposte = 10%/3 = 3.3%/point CONCLUSIONS: 1 point Quick Action adds 5% chance for second hit 1 point Lethal Blow adds 3% chance of a lethal blow at 50% ave. additional damage 1 point Riposte adds 5% chance to riposte (I had 15% Riposte with 3 points) 1 point Parry adds 6% chance to parry (I had 30% Parry with 5 points) 1 point Quick Strike adds 1/8 or 1/10 bonus Action Points 8-10 points Quick Strike add 1 bonus AP Quick Strike needs more testing, considering the different results we are getting. [EDIT: I fixed my QS Errors in these results] [ Wednesday, December 21, 2005 20:56: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 6292
|
written Wednesday, December 21 2005 12:50
Profile
I mean to post this separately. This test compares melee stats while blessed. Same PC used as the previous test. [EDIT: Removed mind-numbing details] RESULTS ON EFFECTS OF BLESSING: Average Hit Damage is increased 20% Quick Action occurrence is improved 15% Lethal Blow occurrence is improved 15% Lethal Blow damage is not affected Parry and Riposte are not affected Quick Strike bonus AP are not affected [ Wednesday, December 21, 2005 20:59: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
|
BANNED
Member # 6554
|
written Friday, December 23 2005 09:49
Profile
could you tell me what the best skills i should invest in? my character is a human archer a slith fighter, a nephil priest/thief human mage -------------------- join me! we shall harness the power of geckos, bunnys, and fluffy pink stuffed animals and rule the world!!! Posts: 193 | Registered: Wednesday, December 14 2005 08:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 6292
|
written Friday, December 23 2005 14:44
Profile
quote:So, you’ve decided to actually play a game? (I’m skeptical). We have several threads on skills and traits running right now, so read through them to get a fuller idea what skills are really worthwhile in A4 and which are not. I probably shouldn’t answer this, so I hope my good faith is not being misplaced in offering a little help. For your archer, I would work towards 6 Dexterity and 8 Bows to make him able to train Sharpshooter. The slith fighter will want some pole skills, unless you made him a melee fighter, and 4-5 Strength, 4-5 Dexterity to start with. If you get him to 8 Dex and 6 Strength, he can train in Gymnastics which will make it hard to hit him. If you get 6 Dex and 6 Defense, you can train him in Parry, which will help deflect blows. This will be important to the long term survival of your slith. Give him several Quick Action to help him get double hits...4 to start with is decent. I give all my PC’s 1 Luck to start with. Give all your PC’s 1-2 First Aid, 1 Nature Lore, and 1 Arcane Lore and bump them up a bit as you go. Your thief should be a mage, not a priest, in order to magically unlock doors better, and he will do well with 8-10 Tool Use to start with. Mages and Priests should start with 5 Mage or Priest Spell levels to give you as many free spells at the start as possible. You can make your priest (instead of a thief) a bit of a second archer or a second mage, or just a really powerful priest. Work to get Magery for your magicians: 8 Intelligence and 6 Priest or Mage Spell levels. They will want Spellcraft soon, and 4-5 Intelligence to start with. I also give all my PC’s 1 skill level in Priest Spells so they can heal or Bless themselves, but this is, of course, up to you. In fact, it’s all up to you, which is what makes the game so much fun. -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
|
His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
|
written Friday, December 23 2005 18:24
Profile
A human archer is a terrible idea, considering that Nephils gain bow skills. A priest thief is useless. Completely useless. Now that Jeff has confirmed that tool use does in fact work with unlock doors, a mage makes sense. And as we found out, humans are the very worst. Nephils are a far better race for everything, and the only thing that Sliths have going for them is the steep experience penalty, which keeps the monster level curve from biting you in your hind end. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
|
Apprentice
Member # 5900
|
written Friday, December 23 2005 19:07
Profile
Oh well. I got Fast on Feet and a mercuric leather on my Nephil archer. With quick strike 3, at level 16, he frequently gets 15 AP when hasted. At times, even 16 AP. Not hasted, it's between 9 and 11 AP. Guess I'll just grab one more level of QS and be happy ever after. :) RAmpaGE. Posts: 22 | Registered: Sunday, June 5 2005 07:00 |
|
Shaper
Member # 6292
|
written Friday, December 23 2005 20:50
Profile
It might take more than one more Quick Strike to get what you want, considering one level of QS is about 1/10 AP roughly. -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |