Quick Strike, Quick Action, and traits
| Author | Topic: Quick Strike, Quick Action, and traits |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Tuesday, December 20 2005 14:02
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I just did some quick testing involving 3 freshly created nephils: one with the Fast on Feet trait, one with 5 points in Quick Strike, and one with both. I did 20 rounds of combat, with the following results: Fast on Feet: AP 8: 10/20 AP 9: 10/20 Average: +0.5 AP Quick Strike 5: AP 8: 12/20 AP 9: 4/20 AP10: 4/20 Average: +0.6 AP Both: AP 8: 3/20 AP 9: 10/20 AP10: 6/20 AP11: 1/20 Average: +1.25 AP However, I have no idea if the effect of Fast on Feet increases with level like the other traits. Can anyone confirm or deny this? My other question concerns Divinely Touched. The trait description claims it makes you "very resistant to damage." Is that true? Is it just a hidden parry bonus, or what? How useful is the bonus? Basically, it now seems that there are at least three traits in competition for each of my PCs: Fast on Feet Divinely Touched Elite Warrior / Deadeye / Natural Mage / Pure Spirit Fast on Feet + Quick Strike seems useful for any character, really, but even moreso when every character can easily get something out of a bow. Quick Strike might be a stretch for mages, but FoF still has potential if combined with +AP items. On the other hand, if I am making a tank, Elite Warrior and Divinely Touched both claim to provide defensive bonuses. Or do I just go all out with gymnastics? While I'm at it, how significant is the armor use effect from Natural Mage? -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Tuesday, December 20 2005 14:09
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Personally, I'd only put Fast on Feet on a character if you expect him to also get Quick Strike (which requires a fighter) or AP-boosting items, since 9 AP isn't really much better than 8. If you do intend to get one of those things, though, it's pretty useful. Oh, and at high levels, it's easy enough to make a fighter into a tank without needing Divinely Touched. As regards Natural Mage, it raises the maximum armor penalty you're allowed to cast mage spells in from -5% to -20%. That's enough to wear a blessed breastplate if you're so inclined. [ Tuesday, December 20, 2005 14:14: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Tuesday, December 20 2005 14:12
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EDIT: Okay, maybe there aren't any missing :) Well, here's the list anyway. Nephil: Bows, Throws, Gymnastics Slith: Pole Elite Warrior: Parry, Blademaster Divinely Touched: Blademaster, Magery, Sharpshooter Natural Mage: Mage Spells, Magic Efficiency Pure Spirit: Priest Spells, Magic Efficiency Deadeye: Sharpshooter Nimber Fingers: Tool Use, First Aid Fast on Feet: (?) Good Con: (?) Thick Skin: (?) Strong Will: (?) [ Tuesday, December 20, 2005 14:17: Message edited by: Slartucker ] -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Tuesday, December 20 2005 14:14
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If you want to put anything heavier than leather armor on your mages, you will need Natural Mage. There are some very good robes and decent leather armors in the game for magicians if you want to go the glass cannon route with a mage. There are a number of magical armors with bonuses I like to use, so I tend to give my mages Natural Mage so they can utilize them. If you noticed in other discussion that loading up XP penalties on PC's in A4 is probably preferable rather than a handicap, then one might consider using Divinely Touched instead of Deadeye, as both give you Sharpshooter. I gave my human melee fighter Strong Will in the first game, and he was definitely charmed and terrified less often than my slith who was without it, but others have claimed it seems to make little difference. Charming and Terror are frequent nuisances in A4, so it might be worth considering. Intelligence seems worthless to give a fighter to combat Charm and Terror. [ Tuesday, December 20, 2005 14:20: Message edited by: Synergy ] -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Tuesday, December 20 2005 14:15
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Sorry, Slartucker, my bad. I was actually getting the Parry bonus from Elite Warrior. Whoops. By the way, it's worth considering putting the Emerald Chestguard on a mage once you get it, since (despite being a breastplate with a whopping 42% protection) it has zero penalty. Missing out on putting +1 to Blademaster on a fighter is annoying, but the low stun resistance makes it somewhat unsuitable for a fighter anyway. I'm finding that later in the game, though, weight rather than penalty tends to be the limiting factor for mages in armour. My mage's current equipment (just what he's wearing, not including anything he's carrying) weighs a little over 57 pounds in total, and thanks to the Bonding Knife he can only carry 58 without encumbrance. On the bright side, his armour is hovering around 100% and his resistances are sky-high too. [ Tuesday, December 20, 2005 14:21: Message edited by: Thuryl ] -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Tuesday, December 20 2005 14:21
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Here's another question: the to-hit penalty from armor, does that apply to all attacks or just to melee combat? I know in the past it was just melee, but I have noticed a lot of the manual descriptions talking about things that affect to-hit, to-dodge, or damage for magic and archery, as well as melee. [ Tuesday, December 20, 2005 14:23: Message edited by: Slartucker ] -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Tuesday, December 20 2005 14:22
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In my experience, missile and magical attacks hardly ever miss, so I'd say that your question is a rather academic one in either case. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 335
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written Tuesday, December 20 2005 14:23
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Nimble fingers doesn't increase First Aid. Fast on Feet hasn't increased Parry any time that I've tried it, but I've never gotten to especially high levels. I very much doubt that it scales. —Alorael, who hasn't checked the resistances to see if they scale. Posts: 14579 | Registered: Saturday, December 1 2001 08:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Tuesday, December 20 2005 14:25
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I just re-checked, and Nimber Fingers *does* increase First Aid. My new character with no skill points spent (Custom class) and Nimble Fingers has 2 Tool Use and 1 First Aid. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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...b10010b...
Member # 869
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written Tuesday, December 20 2005 14:25
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quote:Yes it does. It doesn't increase it by much, but it does increase it. I think the bonus is +1 at first level and +1 every tenth level after that. -------------------- The Empire Always Loses: This Time For Sure! Posts: 9973 | Registered: Saturday, March 30 2002 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Wednesday, December 21 2005 10:40
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I should have posted my melee stats in this thread, which inspired my testing. The conclusion I am coming to is that focusing on AP and extra hits by fighters (except QA which is essential) probably isn't very efficient, considering the relatively little damage a melee fighter does throughout the game. I'm more in line with Vlish's thinking that making your meat shield unhittable and taking much less damage due to Dexterity, Parry, and Gymnastics is the better investment. Even with the occasional Lethal Blow, I was getting 30-something damage per hit instead of 20-something. This adds up to maybe one more hit needed without any Lethal Blow. It might make more sense for a pole fighter who regularly gets 40-something damage per hit, but a pole fighter is also more vulnerable and could use the unhittability all the more. -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Wednesday, December 21 2005 10:54
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The front liner should be a tank yes, with damage as a secondary concern. Gymnastics is proving to be quite powerful actually. Stuff in the Great Cave area only has a 1% chance to hit my front liner. Anything that does hit is parried. Tanko has stopped drinking potions eons ago, and even mages are minor annoyances because most spells can't hit him either. Archers, bane of my existance because parry doesn't seem to work as well against arrows, are also only mildly annoying. 10 dexterity, 9 or 10 gymnastics I think, and I don't remember how much parry. All of the real damage comes from your mages and archer. Archer of course there to provide ancillary support through status effects if possible through the use of the elemental bows, switching to a high physical damage bow if needed. Torment has become quite bearable. Even the Ogre Battle was manageable... But barely. -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |
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Warrior
Member # 5268
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written Wednesday, December 21 2005 13:08
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quote:My take on this is that it doesn't matter once you get the priest spell that counteracts mind control (can't remember its name now). (And you would rarely get charmed before you get it anyway.) While my fighters were charmed it usually happened that my fighters moved before monsters and my spell casters moved after. As a result, my fighters would attack, get charmed, and then my spell caster would uncharm them as required. As I was usually hasted this still left an action free for the casters to do something else and there was no real cost. consequently, I prefer some other trait than Strong Will... Fast on Feet maybe? Posts: 148 | Registered: Tuesday, December 7 2004 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Wednesday, December 21 2005 13:12
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Vlish, I'd like to see your fighter's stats, as many relevant ones as you care to list, including his advantages and level. Also, which Ogre battle do you keep referring to? The highway robbers, the camp between Fort Samuels and the Tower Colony, or the one underground north of the Tower Colony? -------------------- A4 Items • A4 Singleton • G4 Items • G4 Forging • G4 Infiltrator • NR Items • The Lonely Celt Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |
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His Mighty Tentacle
Member # 627
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written Wednesday, December 21 2005 13:21
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THE Ogre Battle. Part of the Tower quest. Right now, front liner is a Slith. He has six strength base, ten dex I believe, a smattering of pole arm skill, enough to get quick strike, still cranking gymnastics. A few points in parry. Hrm, seven or eight endurance. He has some bow and sharpshooter skill. Some in luck, some in hardiness, some in quick action. A purely defensive build. For traits, he has the elite warrior skill. Edit. Oh. He's in his twenties. [ Wednesday, December 21, 2005 13:22: Message edited by: Delicious Vlish ] -------------------- If I could make just one wish, I would want a tasty vlish. Geneforge IV. Still no tasty vlish. Posts: 1104 | Registered: Tuesday, February 12 2002 08:00 |