Level & arm up using only add-on scenarios?

AuthorTopic: Level & arm up using only add-on scenarios?
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #0
I've just played the Avernum trilogy and the four main Blades quests. I have my saved party of four from Blades, but it's the usual melee fighter, pole fighter, mage, priest combo I have used in much of my playing and I kind of want to experiment with a one, two, or three player party, playing Blades scenarios, working my way up to Bahssikava doing so.

Is this feasible with available BoA add-on scenarios in existence? To get the experience and weaponry/armor needed to take on Bahssikava. I really don't want to replay the four main BoA scenarios to create a new party to do this. Also, in order to play Bahssikava, do I need a party of four to be likely to succeed or could it be done with two or three?

I've seen a variety of discussion about possible party combinations but it's gotten rather muddled and confusing to me all in all with different numbers mixed into the same threads. I'm going to start three separate threads here, one each on ideas for a singleton party, a duo party, and a triad party to see what people have tried or what would be a good challenge or good fun.

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Off With Their Heads
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Bahs can be completed with a party ranging from very close to the default (which is what I used) to a singleton.

In order to get a party up to the right level for Bahs, you could use the HLPM. This is by far easier than playing through several more scenarios just to get to Bahs.

You could also play: The Cave of No Return, A Perfect Forest, Mad Ambition, Emerald Mountain, Cresent Valley, Druids of Krell, and Canopy, in that order. That sounds like a lot of scenarios, but most of them are pretty short, and you'd definitely have enough strength for Bahs at that point.

If you're really looking for a challenge, you could skip half of those and simply complete APF, EM, DoK, and Canopy.

Also, creating four different topics for this was probably highly unnecessary.

[ Monday, September 12, 2005 14:40: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

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Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
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Hey, the stat boosts and the Lucky Cape from Roses of Reckoning help a good bit. Not to say it's a good scenario, of course. >_>

That said, because of the way BoA works (and how scenarios have been so far), you can generally get better equipment in third-party scenarios (because designers have different opinions of what's "balanced", treasure-wise) and better experience in the four main scenarios (simply because they're much longer).

[ Monday, September 12, 2005 15:06: Message edited by: Imban ]
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #3
I’d already poked through all the archives to find what I can on one, two, and three-member party ideas to date and gotten some intriguing and wildly ranging ideas. I’d like to see some of the latest thought and consensus (yeah right) on each party size up to three as a specific focus, especially in the context of using them for BoA. I apologize if one topic for each seems unnecessary. I thought it would be nice to keep different number party ideas unmixed from each other, but I’ll be happy for the info any way anyone wants to dish it out.

I was surprised to not really find much in the way of archived threads on how best to go about just trying a singleton, for instance. I like the idea and challenge of a loner, but having tried it briefly a couple times before with Avernum 1 and VoDT in Blades, I found it too frustratingly difficult early on and gave up, maybe just because I didn’t know how to best allocate skill points for a lone PC yet. Meanwhile, I’m so far leaning toward trying a two-member party of some sort, but haven’t decided yet how to compose it exactly. I want a good challenge with the streamlining and simplicity I get with fewer members.

With two or three members, it seems one can do entirely(?) without a mage and focus on fighters/priests or some combination of archer with those. I like the idea of giving the party members each two weaknesses rather than any advantages which will ramp up the level gain rate, though the opposite idea of maxing advantages to slow the level gain as much as possible is a curious idea too.

For duos, what are reasons to have a mage/priest combo with a fighter as opposed to a more powerful priest or priest/archer/thief combo? I’m also curious where potion-making fits into the mix if at all. Can that be dispensed with entirely to little detriment? Without a mage, I presume someone needs very high tool use for opening doors and you just have to learn to live without far sight. Can a priest afford the high tool use or does the fighter get it? I also like the idea of a mage/priest combo for the second of two PC’s, but can I really afford all those pricey priest, mage, intelligence (and possibly potion) points required in one such PC?

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Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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quote:
Originally written by synergy67:

Without a mage, I presume someone needs very high tool use for opening doors and you just have to learn to live without far sight.
Given that Unlock Doors doesn't work on anything but magically locked doors in BoA, you'll need Tool Use anyway — not that any scenario that I've seen actually requires significant amounts of it, but still.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Shake Before Using
Member # 75
Profile #5
Hey, if you have an utterly ridiculous level of Unlock Doors, you can unlock non-magically-locked doors with it too. You can also just bash them down. Still, neither is really recommended. >_>
Posts: 3234 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00
Off With Their Heads
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Huh. That's funny. I just checked the door.txt script, and it has the call get_unlock_spell_strength. I looked in the Appendices, and it's undocumented. It's pretty obvious, though.

Anyway, I hadn't noticed this before Imban pointed it out, but to be more specific: apparently your unlock spell strength needs to be double the lock's strength. I assume that means that your bonus plus your spell level needs to be double the lock's strength, i.e. Mage Spells + Int + Unlock level = 10 to unlock a door with strength 5. Or possibly it means that you need Unlock Doors at level 10 to unlock a door that you could pick with Tool Use at 5.

Either way, this is, in normal situations, utterly useless. However, it's interesting to note.

[ Tuesday, September 13, 2005 15:29: Message edited by: Kelandon ]

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #7
Well, I couldn't wait to figure out the "Perfect Party" and wanted to get into some add-on scenarios, so I'm trying a fighter/thief and mage/priest combo. I gave the magician brittle bones and natural mage and the fighter strong will and sickness prone. This gives both a +5% level up rate.

I played The Cave of No Return and A Perfect Forest today so far. I liked some of the clever programming that went into the latter. I am left thinking all the more I'd like to build my own scenario some time. The question I wanted to ask scenario builders is how difficult a learning curve is it to use the builder/editor? I'm no programmer, just a guy who's decently competent with his Mac.

Cheers,

Doug

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A4 ItemsA4 SingletonG4 ItemsG4 ForgingG4 Infiltrator NR Items The Lonely Celt
Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Shaper
Member # 6292
Profile #8
I just noticed something along the lines of what you're saying, Imban...I accidentally cast unlock doors (instead of picking it) with 4 intelligence and a mage level of 8 or 9 on a non-magically locked door and my spell opened the door nonetheless...difficulty 4-8....somewhere in there.

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A4 ItemsA4 SingletonG4 ItemsG4 ForgingG4 Infiltrator NR Items The Lonely Celt
Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00
Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
Profile Homepage #9
quote:
Originally written by synergy67:

The question I wanted to ask scenario builders is how difficult a learning curve is it to use the builder/editor? I'm no programmer, just a guy who's decently competent with his Mac.
The key to learning basic scripting is to use the resources effectively. Take advantage of the 3D Editor, Alint, and the various articles and guides on the web. (All of these things can be found either at my page or in my links.)

Trying to do it on your own sucks pretty badly, though.

--------------------
Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens.
Smoo: Get ready to face the walls!
Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr.

Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me
The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever
Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00