VTech
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Monday, April 16 2007 09:02
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I hope this hasn't affected any of our members. I've no information other than the headline, but it looks pretty grim there. (21 dead at Virginia Tech) -------------------- quote: Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Infiltrator
Member # 3441
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written Monday, April 16 2007 09:32
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Damn... Biggest civilian shooting in the US, ever. I can't comprehend why a person would feel the need to express their emotional problems by taking the lives of others. -------------------- "As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it." --Albert Einstein -------------------- Posts: 536 | Registered: Sunday, September 7 2003 07:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2080
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written Monday, April 16 2007 09:49
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I can't figure out how the idiots how do shootings manage to get in so many fatal shots, when most cops can't do it -------------------- "I don't understand a word you just said. Try speaking American. It's the only language I understand." Posts: 1918 | Registered: Sunday, October 13 2002 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Monday, April 16 2007 12:39
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quote:The worst part is that the gunman shot himself... denying anyone a chance at justice (or revenge, whichever you see it as). There's just some sort of serious logical flaw... I can kinda understand shooting one's self, or going on a rampage without killing one's self... but rampage + suicide = ? -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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Post Navel Trauma ^_^
Member # 67
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written Monday, April 16 2007 13:17
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I think the worst part is that the gunman shot the others. The rampage + suicide makes more sense than rampage alone, I think. However much you hate all the mindless sheep who make your life hell, you'll have some notion that you won't possibly get away with a rampage, unless you've decided that your life won't be getting any better and you might as well go down too. -------------------- Barcoorah: I even did it to a big dorset ram. desperance.net - Don't follow this link Posts: 1798 | Registered: Thursday, October 4 2001 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Monday, April 16 2007 13:31
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The number that I read was 33. It was nearly triple the deaths at Columbine. Awful. Hard to say more than just that it's awful. I wish the friends and families strength and hope in getting through this. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Guardian
Member # 2080
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written Monday, April 16 2007 14:14
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Is it too much to ask that the psychos just kill themselves(or each other) -------------------- "I don't understand a word you just said. Try speaking American. It's the only language I understand." Posts: 1918 | Registered: Sunday, October 13 2002 07:00 |
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Councilor
Member # 6600
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written Monday, April 16 2007 14:58
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Yes. Originally by Ephesos: quote:For me, the worst part about the gunman killing himself is that, unless he left a very detailed suicide note or diary, there's no way to know for sure why he did it. Investigations can only go so far. If the gunman was alive, there's the possibility of finding out what triggered the shooting and preventing another one. Probably only a small chance, to be sure, but since the gunman's dead, there's really not a chance at all. Dikiyoba. Posts: 4346 | Registered: Friday, December 23 2005 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2820
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written Monday, April 16 2007 15:28
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The people who snap and decide to use others as target practice are unsettlingly deadly. Preliminary reports indicate that he was only using two handguns, and yet he managed to kill and injure dozens of people. This particular psychopath must have been exceptionally skilled with firearms. I even heard speculative reports that he had called in the bomb threats to Virginia Tech a few months or weeks ago in order to analyze its emergency response procedure. Regardless, this is yet another grim incident of pointless violence. I do not think that it is just a coincidence that 4/20 is coming up this week. -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00 |
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? Man, ? Amazing
Member # 5755
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written Monday, April 16 2007 15:35
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When I first heard the news this morning, it was only 21 confirmed deaths, whereas now it stands at 33. My sympathies are with the families and friends of all the victims, and most importantly with the family of the gunman. Through no action of their own, they are in the tough place of asking themselves what they could have done differently to prevent their son from being a mass-murderer. It won't surprise me if there are profound changes in their lives. For what it is worth, I'm not sure a person can be regarded as sane if they begin such a rampage. It takes something switching off in the brain in order to regard a human as meat. No matter the cause, I'm not sure that anything could be done to prevent such an action in the future, other than to encourage students to be kinder, to not bully, and to see that others are just as human as they. It seems all to frequent that strangers are disregarded and ignored, when simple kindnesses can be extended through no effort. I wonder what he would have done if ten people had smiled at him and said "Good morning" while he was walking down the path to the dormitory... -------------------- quote: Posts: 4114 | Registered: Monday, April 25 2005 07:00 |
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Raven v. Writing Desk
Member # 261
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written Monday, April 16 2007 19:04
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We live in a culture that glorifies violence, a culture that breeds alienation. It is so easy for people to slip through the cracks, socially. And we live in a culture in which abuse and neglect can't even be considered all that rare. Some of the adolescents I work with could very easily turn out like that guy. They probably won't, because they are getting lots of support services, and lots of care from lots of people. Many young people aren't that lucky -- especially if they tend to internalize their problems. We don't recognize children in trouble and we don't have the resources to care for them when we do. And when their troubles go uncared for, their life is going to be a pile. -------------------- Slarty vs. Desk • Desk vs. Slarty • Timeline of Ermarian • G4 Strategy Central Posts: 3560 | Registered: Wednesday, November 7 2001 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Monday, April 16 2007 19:44
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It's worth noting, I suppose, that our culture is not unique in that respect. We have far more data on our culture than on any other, and we have an obligation to try to do something about it, though it's hard to know what to do. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Agent
Member # 2820
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written Monday, April 16 2007 19:51
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It would be impossible to stop all massacres like this from happening. I would decry any attempts to cause a pandemic hysteria over this, though what I fear the most right now is the possibility of copycat incidents. The most detestable thing about these events in relation to our society is that a single extremely brutal killing like the one this morning can set off a domino chain of others like it. That is actually what honestly makes me a little worried about the weeks to come. I am torn up inside about what I think America needs to do about this issue for the future, and I think many others are too. -------------------- Thuryl: I mean, most of us don't go around consuming our own bodily fluids, no matter how delicious they are. ==== Alorael: War and violence would end if we all had each other's babies! ==== Drakefyre: Those are hideous mangos. Posts: 1415 | Registered: Thursday, March 27 2003 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 7538
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written Monday, April 16 2007 21:02
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I think part of the reason there has been so much confusion about how many people were killed was because of the two different shooting times. Apparently there was a two hour gap right in the middle. Makes you wonder how the shooter managed to go uncaught for those two hours. -------------------- Do not provoke the turtles. They do not like being provoked. -Lenar My website: Nemesis' Refuge Posts: 743 | Registered: Friday, September 29 2006 07:00 |
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Law Bringer
Member # 4153
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written Monday, April 16 2007 22:00
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quote:I hadn't even thought of that, I was so preoccupied with how horrible the actual event was. That's not going to be a fun thought to take around campus for the last few weeks of the semester... Also, it's definitely going to make me catch myself when I exaggerate how mad I am at my suitemates about their unending drinking and partying. -------------------- Gamble with Gaea, and she eats your dice. I hate undead. I really, really, really, really hate undead. With a passion. Posts: 4130 | Registered: Friday, March 26 2004 08:00 |
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By Committee
Member # 4233
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written Tuesday, April 17 2007 03:40
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What is wrong with our culture that these sorts of things seem to happen commonly? Posts: 2242 | Registered: Saturday, April 10 2004 07:00 |
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Agent
Member # 3364
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written Tuesday, April 17 2007 05:19
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Call me old-fashioned, but I think it's the meltdown of the family. Divorce is rampant leaving many children ripped from parents that they really need. Boys are seperated from their fathers and, in many cases, left to live most of the time with their mothers, who as women, don't really know how to teach them to be men. (Also many mothers, hurt from the divorce, will constantly put down the fathers in front of their children giving the image 'men are bad'.) With absent fathers in many boys' lives they have to turn to other male role models to compensate. The most available male rolemodels are those seen on TV. And when, as already stated, our media culture glorifies violence and puts an unrealistic expectation of 'falling in love' and 'things always work out for the good guy' into their minds, it's little wonder that more and more people are turning to drugs, alcohol, and crime when their 'happily ever after' never shows up. At least this is the opinion I've come out with after watching the Bringing up Boys series by Dr. Dobbson. The session on statistics alone blew my mind. [ Tuesday, April 17, 2007 05:31: Message edited by: Jewels ] -------------------- "Even the worst Terror from Hell can be transformed to a testimony from Heaven!" - Rev. David Wood 6\23\05 "Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as you ever can." - John Wesley Posts: 1001 | Registered: Tuesday, August 19 2003 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7420
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written Tuesday, April 17 2007 08:53
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quote:I'm certain that the same thing could have happened at any other point in human history had the people had the means. Humans are an imperfect race, and sometimes a few are crazy. It's always been like that. It only seems like it's getting worse today because the crazy few can get access to means by which they can kill more people than ever before. It's also a matter of media. There have always been murderers. A thousand years ago, you might not hear about a murder that happened only a few miles from where you live, but today, you hear about murders thousands of miles away. Plus there's more people in general so... more death. -------------------- You lose. Posts: 2156 | Registered: Thursday, August 24 2006 07:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Tuesday, April 17 2007 09:03
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True, but this wouldn't have happened 10 or 20 years ago, either, in which the means were also available. The pressure that society today puts on everyone (not just kids) is enough to eventually make someone crack now and then. Add that to the glorified violence, what Jewels added above, and the additional stress of the 'War on Terror', and you're just asking for someone to have a psychotic breakdown over something seemingly trivial. Add a touch of mental instability, and you have a recipe for disaster. -------------------- I tried to think of something witty to put here. Needless to say, I failed. Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Tuesday, April 17 2007 09:18
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quote:Really? -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 7472
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written Tuesday, April 17 2007 09:30
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Before I get into a battle over technicalities, I'd like to say that I should have said, 'the odds of this happening were much lower 10 or 20 years ago'. You have to admit that this problem has been accelerating recently. (Ironically, what you linked has a direct link to a new article about this tragedy) -------------------- I tried to think of something witty to put here. Needless to say, I failed. Posts: 2686 | Registered: Friday, September 8 2006 07:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Tuesday, April 17 2007 09:36
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quote:I don't mean to pick a fight here, so please do not interpret my response as belligerent, but I think this point is worth making. But I don't have to admit any such thing. That's a statistical statement that is either true or false (not a matter of opinion), and I don't think either you or I have done the relevant research to know the frequency of school shootings over the past several decades and whether there has been any increase or not. In other words, I don't think you know this. quote:How is that ironic? [ Tuesday, April 17, 2007 09:37: Message edited by: Kelandon ] -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Lifecrafter
Member # 6700
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written Tuesday, April 17 2007 09:52
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I feel that there are two common misconceptions here: 1. Things like this did not used to happen. 2. Our culture glorifies violence. The fact of the matter, as Kel pointed out, is that you only need one person to snap in order to get a homicidal rampage on your hands. It doesn't matter what year it is, it doesn't matter what weapons are availible, it only takes one. Our culture and particularly our means of communication (the media) are infatuated with reporting the extraordinary. There are a good number of reasons for this, all easily up for debate (my favorite being that news is a business, after all). Now, it may be more accurate to say that reports of this were less common in the past, as communication networks in the past have been slower and less thorough. Also something to note is the deterioration of the concept of discretion in the media. To say that there were no killings twenty years ago is akin to saying that at the turn of the twentieth century, teenagers did not get pregnant, and that there were no such things as affairs during the Victorian era. We do not display violence because it is to be praised. We display violence because we know that it is an extreme measure, and because our social mores know it to be wrong. If it wasn't. it wouldn't be news, and it wouldn't be sensational. Of course, it only takes one. From what I've read about this, it becomes obvious that the kid went in with a premeditated plan. He went well-armed, highly skilled, and had plenty of extra ammo. He methodically chose which classrooms to kill, and killed himself while he had plenty of ammunition left. This sounds more like an execution than a passion crime committed by a kid who had bad social mores forced upon him. EDIT: Oy... one little dropped word can change the entire point of a post... -------------------- The Silent Assassin would like to note that violence is not always the question, nor the answer, and that the answer to the question of violence is not always yes. Now, if the question of the solution is string cheese, then the answer is always yes. [ Tuesday, April 17, 2007 09:55: Message edited by: Lenar ] -------------------- -Lenar Labs What's Your Destiny? Ushmushmeifa: Lenar's power is almighty and ineffable. All hail lord Noric, god of... well, something important, I'm sure. Posts: 735 | Registered: Monday, January 16 2006 08:00 |
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Off With Their Heads
Member # 4045
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written Tuesday, April 17 2007 10:04
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It may well be that our culture glorifies violence, but many other cultures have glorified violence in the past and many do also in the present. We are not by any means unique in this respect. -------------------- Arancaytar: Every time you ask people to compare TM and Kel, you endanger the poor, fluffy kittens. Smoo: Get ready to face the walls! Ephesos: In conclusion, yarr. Kelandon's Pink and Pretty Page!!: the authorized location for all things by me The Archive of all released BoE scenarios ever Posts: 7968 | Registered: Saturday, February 28 2004 08:00 |
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Shaper
Member # 6292
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written Tuesday, April 17 2007 10:28
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The killer was weilding .22 and 9mm handguns. I'm disturbed that out of all those classrooms full of students, there were no heros or a simple team effort to rush the perpetrator and take him down. Instead, 32 of them cowered and died like sheep one by one. These things happen often enough in America that we should know by now what's going to happen if no one fights back. The one who has snapped is going to walk around and indiscriminately kill until he becomes tired, runs out of ammo, or is forcibly stopped. Far fewer people will die or be injured if a just a very few are brave enough to stop a mortal young man holding two pistols. Where are our heros, America? I'm finding this event sad on multiple levels. The same culture that breeds killers in an environment of social disconnect, unmeaningful life work, narcissism, hollow consumerism, and an unhealthy "rugged individualism" also apparently teaches us to preserve number one at all costs when it comes down to threat, even if scores of our fellow students are going to die if we fail to act. -S- -------------------- A4 Item Locations A4 Singleton G4 Items List G4 Forging List The Insidious Infiltrator Posts: 2009 | Registered: Monday, September 12 2005 07:00 |